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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wes350" data-source="post: 3132073" data-attributes="member: 46014">I didn't say all 3e players are munchkins - don't quote something not in my post. I just think that 3.5 as designed requires you to be mindful of build efficency due to the nature of the in game assuptions. This is one of those things that I don't like, that many more see as a feature of the system.I just think you traded in your old handcuffs for a more complex, fancier, and complicated set.In almost every game I listed for skeptic, those games have online forums. And in those forums they have a forum to discuss/share your PC's. To a one when they are sharing/discussing new PC's they are talking about their new character concept and background for their PC. With NOT one post about the most efficent build.This is a difference in the other games outlook that I like.Balance is important to greater or lesser degrees. But different systems balance things in different ways. If you look at the list of games I listed for skeptic only two of the have anything close to levels. And I have played many of those games - and you know what? I can just look at the PC's character sheets and look at the stats for the bad guys and I know within a few seconds how the PC's will do against them in combat. And no, since in those other systems XP is not gained by killing the bad guys, those "encounters" get balanced any way I want for GMing purposes.Only the way you are playing the game is broken. There are plenty of problems that money can't solve. This is why in my groups we sit down and have group chargen. We also discuss what type of characters we want to play, and the game expierience we are looking for. If it fits the campaign we are playing there is nothing wrong or broken about a PC with 5 points in wealth. And if instead we want to play a more street level campaign, we just say NO to anyone wanting a PC with 5 points in wealth. It's easy.Vampire doesn't take 13.1 seconds to break. I just think your assumptions about chargen and play in non-level based games are just off from how people really do things. And no game that I listed has this assumption..</blockquote>

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