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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5965000" data-attributes="member: 87792">And they get diminishing returns - the target DC rises from medium to hard. And then if I'm DMing it goes upwards from there. You've already done what you can with this skill - to convince me you can do it again without seriously diminished returns you need to show me how you are using your skill in a fundamentally different way.&nbsp;And [MENTION=54710]KidSnide[/MENTION], I consider skill challenges I run to vary at least as much as ogres did from orcs pre-4e.&nbsp; I do consider skill challenges to be a scaffolding-based meta resolution system.&nbsp; And trying to present the scaffolding itself rather than the building it helps you build just looks bad.&nbsp;&nbsp;One exploration skill and one interaction skill isn't a high bar to set.&nbsp;&nbsp;Honestly to me this is a matter of experience. Skill Challenges are an attempt to systematise the way some good DMs handle complex situations and make it accessible to all DMs. The guidance isn't what it might be. And not all DMs will handle all situations the same way.&nbsp;But ultimately most experienced DMs can get by without such a guideline. The people who need it are new DMs. In my third session DMing my PCs threw a slightly insane plan at me (I've given details repeatedly on other threads). And had I just had skill checks rather than skill challenges to fall back on I don't know what I'd have done. Possibly hid under the table gibbering. But with a mechanical structure to fall back on that covered the entire scene I was able to concentrate on weaving that with the fiction and handle it almost seamlessly.&nbsp;And that is where skill challenges or something like them are incredibly useful. Not for experienced DMs - most will tweak the system. But for newbies wondering how to learn to pace a scene or handle an off the wall plan.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5965000, member: 87792"] And they get diminishing returns - the target DC rises from medium to hard. And then if I'm DMing it goes upwards from there. You've already done what you can with this skill - to convince me you can do it again without seriously diminished returns you need to show me how you are using your skill in a fundamentally different way. And [MENTION=54710]KidSnide[/MENTION], I consider skill challenges I run to vary at least as much as ogres did from orcs pre-4e. I do consider skill challenges to be a scaffolding-based meta resolution system. And trying to present the scaffolding itself rather than the building it helps you build just looks bad. One exploration skill and one interaction skill isn't a high bar to set. Honestly to me this is a matter of experience. Skill Challenges are an attempt to systematise the way some good DMs handle complex situations and make it accessible to all DMs. The guidance isn't what it might be. And not all DMs will handle all situations the same way. But ultimately most experienced DMs can get by without such a guideline. The people who need it are[I] new[/I] DMs. In my third session DMing my PCs threw a slightly insane plan at me (I've given details repeatedly on other threads). And had I just had skill checks rather than skill challenges to fall back on I don't know what I'd have done. Possibly hid under the table gibbering. But with a mechanical structure to fall back on that covered the entire scene I was able to concentrate on weaving that with the fiction and handle it almost seamlessly. And that is where skill challenges or something like them are [I]incredibly[/I] useful. Not for experienced DMs - most will tweak the system. But for newbies wondering how to learn to pace a scene or handle an off the wall plan. [/QUOTE]

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