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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 5965150" data-attributes="member: 710">IIRC, pemerton really only started playing D&amp;D with 4E - so Unearthed Arcana is most likely an obscure rulebook to him.Also, the <a href="http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Unearthed_Arcana/Complex_Skill_Checks" target="_blank">complex skill check[url] rules in UA were only ever talking about rolling for a single skill. Heck, they even say that Diplomacy is not well suited for a complex skill check - while I'd say that Diplomacy is a wonderful part of a social skill challenge that of course uses more than just diplomacy.</a><a href="http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Unearthed_Arcana/Complex_Skill_Checks" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Unearthed_Arcana/Complex_Skill_Checks" target="_blank">4E my opinion lacking on good advice on how to narrate skill challenges so they don't become just an exercise in dice rolling. </a><a href="http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Unearthed_Arcana/Complex_Skill_Checks" target="_blank">It may also be to strict in requiring a goal and deciding only success or failure - this goes along with the narration issue, by the way. As pemerton mentions, he likes skill challenges because they lead to unexpected outcomes - that definitely requires narration with each challenge - both from players and the DM, and it requires some &quot;open ends&quot;. If the rules do not specifically require this, the advice on using the rules should probably contain ideas on this.</a></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 5965150, member: 710"] IIRC, pemerton really only started playing D&D with 4E - so Unearthed Arcana is most likely an obscure rulebook to him. Also, the [url=http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Unearthed_Arcana/Complex_Skill_Checks]complex skill check[url] rules in UA were only ever talking about rolling for a single skill. Heck, they even say that Diplomacy is not well suited for a complex skill check - while I'd say that Diplomacy is a wonderful part of a social skill challenge that of course uses more than just diplomacy. 4E my opinion lacking on good advice on how to narrate skill challenges so they don't become just an exercise in dice rolling. It may also be to strict in requiring a goal and deciding only success or failure - this goes along with the narration issue, by the way. As pemerton mentions, he likes skill challenges because they lead to unexpected outcomes - that definitely requires narration with each challenge - both from players and the DM, and it requires some "open ends". If the rules do not specifically require this, the advice on using the rules should probably contain ideas on this.[/url] [/QUOTE]

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