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Message: <blockquote data-quote="calprinicus" data-source="post: 5972904" data-attributes="member: 6696956">I like a lot of what you guys saying especially the decision-points, however there is one thing you do that I disagree with and want to propose a solution. I do not think that players should be penalized in any way when they succeed, it takes the glory of a success and makes it mean less to the player. to go further, when a player fails shouldn't have an overall penalty to the group, but instead be unable to contribute to progress.in examples:I wanna propose my alternative:With whats been laid out in this forum I've done a series of playtests with my group on an 'event' system simular to skill challenges. Each 'Event' has HP and a duration of 3 rounds. The HP is equal to 15 HP per player (5 hp per player per round). Each event needs to be important to the players and rewards if the event is successful and/or punish if the event is a failure. In the following example I used a "find a hidden temple in the forest, before you get lost" if they succeed the event, they find the temple without concequence. If they fail the event,  they lose some healing surges as they get lost. players end at the temple either way. Each player goes around in turns and rolls a skill check, casts a spell, or uses an item they think is helpful to the situation. The DM determines how helpful it is and assigns it damage accordingly.Not very helpful -1d6 - "I wish to wonder aimlessly"helpful - 2d6 - "I want to find north"very helpful - 3d6 - "I want to climb a tree to see the lay of the land"the player then rolls damage. There are dimished returns. If the same action is done a second time the damage is halfed, it cannot be attempted a third.What I found:• Players are rewarded for creative thoughts and will go out of their way to think of things that are more helpful in order to roll more dice.• The party / players are not punished when someone fails, they just don't contribute.• DM doesn't allow stupid skill checks like "wonder aimlessly" to contribute alot to an event like a success on a skill challenge might. ADDING DECISION POINTS AND OBSTACLES:This is the key to keeping drama. Each round after every player has a turn the DM takes a turn and does 2 things:1.) Open up new options and new decision points for the player, introducing new ways to preform tasks.2.) Add increasing drama of the event.This is an example of what I add to the "search through the forest encounter"• After turn 1: " infront of you is a large cliff that hinders your progression. - for some DMs this might people to take damage if someone fails a climb check to simulate rocks falling.• After turn 2: " Player number # falls and is stuck in quicksand."• After turn 3: Fail condition. "players get lost and after 2 days find their way back onto the right path and locate the temple. Everyone loses 2 healing surges in this process."Adding a cliff face to the event adds more options to the player in terms of new things to do. and can add hazards to the players if the DM wants to.Having quicksand again adds a whole new list of checks and options to the players, for the player caught it adds a new level of self danger. I normally 'hit' players that are inactive, this normally will get them more involved on whats going on. What I found:• adding events at the end of each round keeps the "improve" amount the DM needs to a minimum, infact it can be planned.• as long as the event adds drama and new options to the player they remain engaged and think of new interesting things to preform.• This added drama can be "close-system" and does need to be determined on what the PCs do on their turn.-thanks</blockquote>

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