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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6243410" data-attributes="member: 2525">Stop with the generic marketing stuff.  We know the actual names of pretty much every employee at the D&D division of WOTC, and Paizo.  They post here and elsewhere. We know what they post and how often they post, and THEY ARE NOT THE PRIMARY DRIVERS OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THEIR GAMES.  What you're talking about might well be true about a major chain restaurant, but it has nothing to do with D&D/Pathfinder.  People talk about those games because they like those games, they are interested in those games, and they buy those games.  Or are you seriously claiming nobody actually buys any WOTC/Paizo products? Come on, you've carried this argument as far as you can go, we both know you went a step too far.He's not equating it with those terms.  He's tracking many terms, and the actual games.  He included in his 5% estimate all the prior versions of the games, 2e, 1e, B/X, ACK, L&L, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, all that stuff. The only fallacy here was your assumption he was just measuring for the term OSR...without ever bothering to ask what was meant by that term in his estimate.Yes, I know.  He included those.  What's weird is you didn't know that...but didn't ask.He breaks out anything with a significant chunk of the market and you can then add up their numbers again yourself if you want to check it.  It's semantics whether Pathfinder or 13th Age are retro-clones.  You have the data to see what people are talking about, and can use it however you want.  Any way you add it up, OSR (not including Pathfinder itself) isn't anything beyond a small niche in the marketplace.It's not SEO or SEM.  He's just using RSS feeds of over 1000 sites.  There is no trickery there.  His motive is to know the actual numbers, the actual number of people talking about different things.  It's a tool that is of use to him, and it's not as useful if it's not reporting the actual numbers accurately to him.If something is popular, a fairly representative portion of the people who like that thing do talk about it on the internet.  It might not map exactly to the total population, but it's roughly accurate to say that if something is talked about a lot on the Internet, then a lot of people are interested in it.  That might not apply well to the hot new electronic toy out next month, as tech-savvy people are more likely to discuss it on the Internet.  But as far as a normal product, like an RPG game, then yes it tracks pretty well.Still waiting on even a single shred of objective data, of any kind, from you.  Seems like we won't get it.</blockquote>

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