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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 6243551" data-attributes="member: 16069">In reply to the original post.I agree for the most part, I DM for three different groups of players atm- which is mad because 5 years ago I had one group; I seem to be having a good run of persuading ex-players and noobs alike to give it a go. I'm mid 40's my players are all younger than me, two groups are mid-20's to 40, and the third group is made up from some of the players kids- aged 4-14. We play 4e, although I've been been on board and have played/DM'ed through every addition of D&D, 2-3 of the other players have been playing D&D since 2nd or 3rd ed. We all have disposable incomes to spend on the game.We've played the playtest, until it was voted out by all groups, the last one (the most mature, by which I mean oldest) about 6 months ago- no more. We gave feedback along the way- a lot at the start, until we got fed up of saying the same things. The comments around the table about 5e were never good, but they went down hill very quickly the more we saw of it, the caves of chaos didn't help- an iconic scenario (back in the day- at least for me) just appeared incredibly simplistic and well... a bit dull in comparison to our own game. I know as the DM I'm as much to blame for this but- gangs of insert monster name, followed by gangs more of the same, and then some more etc. The most heard comment other than "I don't get it", or else, "I don't like it", was- "this isn't D&D", or a very close equivalent.Obviously this made me chuckle at the time, but then think about things later, for 9 of my 12 core players 4e is the only D&D, or indeed RPG they've ever played, (aside from computer games), 5e is not like 4e- for my guys and so to them 5e is not D&D.They (and in particular the kids) like poster maps, and the tactical stuff- they even love counting squares et al; and I get that we can do this with 5e but they didn't think it was the same, and nor do I. Don't get me wrong the theater of the mind is still alive and well, but my guys play D&D a bit like it's a board game (that's 4e for you)- and they like that.Sometimes I would go so far as to say that they need that- they need the board and the tactical stuff (it should be noted that all of my players watch lots of films, and yet read very few books- in comparison), this power has this set effect- move x squares and... I think this is partially because they don't have the RPG background/history thing, but also because they love the visuals thing- which 4e with its tactical board game play has always been about.The 3 other core players (and me) have discussed at length trying Pathfinder, and perhaps going back for a game of 3/3.5e- we've got tons of old stuff we'd love to play. But so far 4e gets the vote every time. In the last two and a half years the three groups have got through 33 4e scenarios- from single session one-shots, to sprawling adventures that last 10 or more sessions, and we have plans (oh boy do we have plans), we still haven't got around to playing Dark Sun, or Eberron, we have managed to play a few sessions of Gamma World (it was voted 'too silly'). We have 100s of 4e scenarios left to play- I bought everything, I have every copy of Dungeon mag etc.The point being, for these guys is 4e is D&D, 5e- or Next just doesn't cut it, I'm actually the one pushing to try Pathfinder, or else something different- the playtest alas left the players cold, it's not even on the list for consideration.Last bit- 5e, I'm fairly certain, will be the first edition of D&D I'll not be buying, and at I time when I'm playing more D&D than I've ever played before (well, apart from when I was about 14-15 when we played every other day). I really, really want to spend my money on 5e, or indeed anything that Wizards put out with the D&D logo on it- I've been that guy since I got my first paper round- I bought everything.That makes me (a bit) sad, not angry, or irate; ideally I'd like to be able to just smoothly transition our 4e campaigns into 5e, as I did with 2e to 3e, and 3e to etc.I'm just not excited by it, not really interested, and for the first time ever (save for the odd pang) I'm really not that bothered.Apologies if this sounded a bit down, I want to reassure you our particular brand of D&D (regardless of the edition) is rip-roaringly funny and frantic, and still incredibly more-ish for us.</blockquote>

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