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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6242830" data-attributes="member: 1210">I disagree with this very, very strongly. What if the shy player likes the idea of playing a bard? You're basically saying that she shouldn't be able to. In essence, you're telling this player, "Sorry, no fun for you". By your argument, a shy player in a 1e game simply doesn't get to play paladins or druids, either. So what happens to this guy in a game where you roll stats in order, and he gets a high Charisma? Does he have special dispensation to rearrange stats from the DM, or is he stuck with a worthless high roll?I recognize your argument, and it works fine for some groups. In fact, the discussion initially arose way back in the day, before there was a real skill system in D&D. But it certainly doesn't work for every group, and in fact, that is the very reason that D&D grew social skills in the first place - to decouple (to whatever extent) player skill with character skill. Not every group likes this decoupling, and that's fine, but surely you recognize that your stance comes with problems, both for the shy player and for the guys who really invests in diplomatic abilities. The more rp scenes are based strictly on roleplaying and not on the dice, the less any effort you put into making your character good at it matters. As an example, I played a character who I wanted to be the world's best liar. The dm houseruled skill points (this was 3.x) so that there was no max, you could put them all into one skill if you wanted.So I was playing this guy with over +100 to Bluff checks. No matter how creative, quick-thinking and disingenuous I am, I personally will NEVER have that good of a liar's face. But my pc sure did!And yet, somehow, I never convinced anyone of anything that I, personally, the player, couldn't convince someone of with my vastly inferior lying skills. I found that tremendously dissatisfying, and I say this as a fairly charismatic, talkative, persuasive guy.</blockquote>

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