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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gothmog" data-source="post: 4861269" data-attributes="member: 317">And some folks complain 4e is "superheroic"? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />  Seriously, the same thing can happen in 4e if the critters are minions, but the difference is that previous editions assumed ALL kobolds/goblins/orcs/etc are minions, and very few actually were competent.  4e assumes a larger proportion of those monsters are competent and have unusual skillsets.Back on topic, 4e is only as dry, boring, and nonsensical as the DM or group that runs it.  Same can be said for 3e, 2e, 1e, or any RPG.  Roleplaying doesn't come from rules or books, it comes from your imagination.  If someone truly does need to have hard-wired rules, feats, etc in the system to roleplay, I feel sorry for them- they are artifically limiting themrselves when they really don't need to.  Look back at 1e AD&D- there were no skills, feats, etc back then, and people did and STILL DO roleplay using 1e and have characters with deep backgrounds and personalities.What a lot of folks do like is that 4e opens up the interpretation of the game to be described as whatever best tickles the DM's or players' fancy at the time.  Yes, this could be done in previous editions, but 4e makes it easier to do and actively encourages it via reskinning of powers, monsters, and giving players some narrative control to describe when and how they use their abilities.  Thats a HUGE strength IMO.4e does have more abstraction than other games on the market (Runequest or Harn for example), but about the same amount as any previous version of D&D, and NO version of D&D has done an even remotely good job of being simulationist or realistic.  3e tried to pretend to be simulationist, but did a rather poor job with it and ended up being a confused mishmash of themes and tropes that fell apart under even basic scrutiny.  D&D has always been about heroic adventure, swords and sorcery swashbuckling, and larger-than-life heroes.And for what its worth, I tend to run games that are not gonzo, over-the-top supers games, but more dark fantasy with strong horror themes and lots of investigation and RP in an internally consistent and detailed setting, and 4e has not only NOT been a hinderance, but actually facilitates the kind of games I like to run far more than 3e ever dreamed of being able to.  In fact, I resurrected my 1e AD&D horror swords & sorcery setting and converted it to 4e, and have had no problems.  The only change to the core 4e I made was slowed down the rate of healing somewhat, and allowed for long-term injuries.  The same setting in 3e required 56 pages of houserules and adjustments just to be able to work to my satisfaction, but by then it was too much hassle to mess with.</blockquote>

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