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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Korgoth" data-source="post: 4861450" data-attributes="member: 49613">When I tried 4e (several sessions of a campaign, not just one session... and the DM was very nice and I liked my character, etc.) I found out that the problems I thought I would have with the game were not the problems I actually did have with it, or at least they didn't bother me as much as the problems that cropped up and surprised me.First was that combat was (to me, of course... who else would I be talking about?), well, tedious in the extreme. You hit half the time, and do something like 1/4 to 1/6 of the target's total with an average attack. So each. lousy. dreary. boring. thug. takes. forever. to. drop. Oh, and there are a dozen of them.So here you have these long, uninteresting combats that take basically the whole session... we'd have like 10 minutes of role playing and then when "bullet time" starts that's pretty much it... there goes the rest of the session.The second problem was something like what someone might call "simulationist", though I hate that term... it was the fact that the semantic content or "skin" of the opponent was totally arbitrary. For example, shirtless boxers who hit for the same damage as armed foes and have AC of an armored man. A pirate in a shirt and pants who had an AC of 21... even though my elf with the 20 Dex and the magic armor only managed a 20.Why did the unarmored pirate have an AC of 21? So an appropriate-level striker would have to roll a 10 or better to hit him, obviously. So it's basically Elder Scrolls: Oblivion or something where the whole world scales with the party.To me, that sucks the life and interest out of the campaign world. If a pirate in a poet shirt and leather pants has an AC 21 just because of math, and if street toughs have 60 hit points just because of math, and everything is just so just because of math, then by all means, karma police arrest this man. Because it's the equivalent of someone taking a belt sander to my imagination.Now that being said, clearly some people enjoy 4E. I don't know what they could possibly get out of it, but I don't know that about a lot of things people do so that's no big deal.I don't think, unlike what the OP may think, that people who dislike 4E and say these things about it merely lack imagination. My imagination is pretty great. I just think that it is a game with a relatively narrow appeal... it delivers one very focused type of play experience, and that's either what you dig or what you don't dig. Kind of like Diplomacy (a game I find aggravating but a lot of people think it's one of the best games evar) or Avalon Hill's original Civilization (a game a lot of people find boring but I think it's one of the best games evar).</blockquote>

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