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<blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4864353" data-attributes="member: 51325">Ok, time to defend 3e AND 4e from this assertion.There's this belief that 3e and 4e are the first editions which &quot;quantified&quot; what a PC needed in terms of equipment and stats.However, this I find not true....3e and 4e are the first to EXPLICITLY tell you. 1e and 2e tended to &quot;hide the math&quot; from the players.For example, the fighter gained followers at 9th and this is expected. Take a look at what the fighter GAINED as followers.You don't think the system was assuming that a 6th level fighter had plate mail + 1, a shield +1 and a spear +1?As for the &quot;non-scaling&quot; issue,2nd edition - Human wearing full plate armour + shield (nonmagical&nbsp; versions of both). - AC 0.Which means that kobolds and goblins ALREADY can't hit the heavy armour wearing people other than on a 20. Let's assume we have a &quot;munchkin&quot; player and he rolled a 17 DEX and the &quot;monty haul&quot; DM (a.k.a, a typical adventure module) at 5th level had provided a full player armour + 1 and shield +1.AC of -5. So, how many monsters in the MM can actually hit this? Pretty much any creature under 5 HD is not even touching this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AllisterH, post: 4864353, member: 51325"] Ok, time to defend 3e AND 4e from this assertion. There's this belief that 3e and 4e are the first editions which "quantified" what a PC needed in terms of equipment and stats. However, this I find not true....3e and 4e are the first to EXPLICITLY tell you. 1e and 2e tended to "hide the math" from the players. For example, the fighter gained followers at 9th and this is expected. Take a look at what the fighter GAINED as followers. You don't think the system was assuming that a 6th level fighter had plate mail + 1, a shield +1 and a spear +1? As for the "non-scaling" issue, 2nd edition - Human wearing full plate armour + shield (nonmagical versions of both). - AC 0. Which means that kobolds and goblins ALREADY can't hit the heavy armour wearing people other than on a 20. Let's assume we have a "munchkin" player and he rolled a 17 DEX and the "monty haul" DM (a.k.a, a typical adventure module) at 5th level had provided a full player armour + 1 and shield +1. AC of -5. So, how many monsters in the MM can actually hit this? Pretty much any creature under 5 HD is not even touching this. [/QUOTE]

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