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<blockquote data-quote="Loonook" data-source="post: 4865003" data-attributes="member: 1861">Honestly, I like this approach... but I would probably take it in a different direction... when we were running a scenario of a large battle in older versions of the game, my first group's DM had a brilliant tactic:&nbsp; 'Grunts' for either side are represented by Unit Points, and the PCs and non-grunt creatures were represented as they are.&nbsp; PCs could cut swathes through grunts by attacking their overall points (similar to swarm or mob rules in 3.x) and grunts would battle against other grunts based on their numbers and how they were being utilized.PCs in a grunt 'unit' provided a bonus to the Grunts dependent on affinities... a cleric leading a group of temple initiates would give a higher benefit to them than he would give to a group of mercenary archers, and the ranger in the group would do the opposite.&nbsp; In your example, an 11th level Minion may have... 11 UP.&nbsp; Those 1st level commoners?&nbsp; Each at 1 UP.&nbsp; Now, the commoners aren't going to be able to take down that ogre on their own unless they include ranged attackers alongside (allowing the ogre to be surrounded on all sides, then pelted with stones, bolts, etc.)&nbsp; or they have that little bump from the PC in their 'stack' (making them effectively 2 UP or even 3 UP units if the character had specific tactics training, was a warlord/leader of the specific group, had trained the group extensively in tactics... you get the idea).&nbsp; This of course was the highly simplified form... the DM loved random tables, benefits for units in their terrain, etc.&nbsp; But that's not too difficult to work out based on your +2/-2 sorts of modifiers which a group could receive, or the aid of a specific member of the party.&nbsp; We also used basic routing rules, member loss, etc. to represent the various things which could occur, but creating a system where a Minion may be worth (UP/lvl), a Solo worth (4*UP/lvl), and so on, with bonuses from any specific thing would allow for large-scale battles to be brought about without too many problems... and give the PCs assistance when they help bring the farmhands up against the wolves.Slainte,-Loonook.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Loonook, post: 4865003, member: 1861"] Honestly, I like this approach... but I would probably take it in a different direction... when we were running a scenario of a large battle in older versions of the game, my first group's DM had a brilliant tactic: 'Grunts' for either side are represented by Unit Points, and the PCs and non-grunt creatures were represented as they are. PCs could cut swathes through grunts by attacking their overall points (similar to swarm or mob rules in 3.x) and grunts would battle against other grunts based on their numbers and how they were being utilized. PCs in a grunt 'unit' provided a bonus to the Grunts dependent on affinities... a cleric leading a group of temple initiates would give a higher benefit to them than he would give to a group of mercenary archers, and the ranger in the group would do the opposite. In your example, an 11th level Minion may have... 11 UP. Those 1st level commoners? Each at 1 UP. Now, the commoners aren't going to be able to take down that ogre on their own unless they include ranged attackers alongside (allowing the ogre to be surrounded on all sides, then pelted with stones, bolts, etc.) or they have that little bump from the PC in their 'stack' (making them effectively 2 UP or even 3 UP units if the character had specific tactics training, was a warlord/leader of the specific group, had trained the group extensively in tactics... you get the idea). This of course was the highly simplified form... the DM loved random tables, benefits for units in their terrain, etc. But that's not too difficult to work out based on your +2/-2 sorts of modifiers which a group could receive, or the aid of a specific member of the party. We also used basic routing rules, member loss, etc. to represent the various things which could occur, but creating a system where a Minion may be worth (UP/lvl), a Solo worth (4*UP/lvl), and so on, with bonuses from any specific thing would allow for large-scale battles to be brought about without too many problems... and give the PCs assistance when they help bring the farmhands up against the wolves. Slainte, -Loonook. [/QUOTE]

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