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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4865491" data-attributes="member: 710">I disagree. 4 minions replace 1 monsters. This means 4 attack rolls and 4 damage rolls. It also means you have to track 4 hit points values and conditions for 4 monsters. That increases management considerably. And you still have 4 other monsters to manage on top of that. When I DM 4E and use minions in an encounter, I really notice how much more easy it is to keep track of the Minions and to resolve their actions. It is a significant speed up. Maybe &quot;management nightmare&quot; is hyperbole. But maybe it is not, considering that you could replace every monster in an encounter with 4 minions and tracking hit points, attacks, damage rolls and conditions for 20 monsters certainly will be a nightmare.Every other approach to Minions that does not used &quot;1 hp&quot; and &quot;fixed damage&quot; will always have this problem. And I think this problem is far more serious then any &quot;simulation&quot; concerns about what a Minion represents in the game world. It will make the experience of a battle against large groups of individual weak foes a long exercise in dice rolling, without adding any more tension and excitement to the battle then if you had used 4E style Minions.I am of the opinion that the experience at the game table is the most important experience. If you do not have fun during what you do at the game table, you won't remember that session fondly. You remember the tedium, the flaws, the failures. You might also remember a kick ass story, and wish that you'd have a better system to have that story to go with, but no, next week, you are guaranteed using the same flawed game experience.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 4865491, member: 710"] I disagree. 4 minions replace 1 monsters. This means 4 attack rolls and 4 damage rolls. It also means you have to track 4 hit points values and conditions for 4 monsters. That increases management considerably. And you still have 4 other monsters to manage on top of that. When I DM 4E and use minions in an encounter, I really notice how much more easy it is to keep track of the Minions and to resolve their actions. It is a significant speed up. Maybe "management nightmare" is hyperbole. But maybe it is not, considering that you could replace every monster in an encounter with 4 minions and tracking hit points, attacks, damage rolls and conditions for 20 monsters certainly will be a nightmare. Every other approach to Minions that does not used "1 hp" and "fixed damage" will always have this problem. And I think this problem is far more serious then any "simulation" concerns about what a Minion represents in the game world. It will make the experience of a battle against large groups of individual weak foes a long exercise in dice rolling, without adding any more tension and excitement to the battle then if you had used 4E style Minions. I am of the opinion that the experience at the game table is the most important experience. If you do not have fun during what you do at the game table, you won't remember that session fondly. You remember the tedium, the flaws, the failures. You might also remember a kick ass story, and wish that you'd have a better system to have that story to go with, but no, next week, you are guaranteed using the same flawed game experience. [/QUOTE]

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