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<blockquote data-quote="Soraios" data-source="post: 4925633" data-attributes="member: 85012">I've been a player in a 4e campaign since the release of the edition.&nbsp; Prior to that, I DM'd and played extensively in a series of 3.x campaigns.&nbsp; I have tried to adapt to the new system (for the sake of my friend who DMs it), but I can't keep playing 4e; the game itself is driving me crazy.&nbsp;I don't think 3.x is perfect.&nbsp; High-level encounters, for instance, can be very complicated.&nbsp; But 3.x is superior to 4e in these ways:&nbsp;* The rules are in the background.&nbsp; The rules are not constantly superimposing themselves on my in-game experience.&nbsp; Example: 4e marking.&nbsp;* High level of player creativity in character design.&nbsp; This only increased as new 3.x materials were released.&nbsp; 4e suffers from &quot;sameyness&quot; from the PHB onward.&nbsp;* Vancian magic.&nbsp; I prefer it.&nbsp; It's part of D&amp;D's core identity.&nbsp; 3e honors it (while giving some options for other paths); 4e pays lip service to it (for wizards, anyway) but essentially reinvents the magic system, to its detriment.&nbsp;* 4e has a very artificial feel.&nbsp; The labels/roles are a big part of that; striker, artillery, leader, minion ... where is the mystery and wonder?&nbsp; The rules encourage metagame thinking and take me out of the game-world and into wargamer mode.&nbsp;Unfortunately, I don't see how I can ignore these problems.&nbsp; With 3.x's bloat issues (particularly for prestige classes), the solution was simply to exercise DM control and exclude the material you didn't want.&nbsp; 4e's problems are inherent.&nbsp; You can't play 4e without being smacked in the face with design issues every single session.&nbsp;As a side comment, while I agree that 4e is certainly easier for a newbie to grasp due to its simplicity, if my first exposure to D&amp;D was 4e I'd probably say to myself after a few sessions, &quot;why not play WoW instead?&quot;&nbsp; IMO, Wizards forgot why people play D&amp;D in the first place.&nbsp;I want to play a game of D&amp;D that emphasizes a blend of role-playing, story-telling, exploration, adventure, and yes, exciting combat.&nbsp; I would venture a guess that most of the folks on this forum want the same, though arguably in different proportions.&nbsp; So I want a game system that allows me to do that with minimal intrusiveness.&nbsp; I don't want to feel like I'm playing a boardgame or MMO.&nbsp; For these reasons, I'm starting a pathfinder campaign.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Soraios, post: 4925633, member: 85012"] I've been a player in a 4e campaign since the release of the edition. Prior to that, I DM'd and played extensively in a series of 3.x campaigns. I have tried to adapt to the new system (for the sake of my friend who DMs it), but I can't keep playing 4e; the game itself is driving me crazy. I don't think 3.x is perfect. High-level encounters, for instance, can be very complicated. But 3.x is superior to 4e in these ways: * [I]The rules are in the background[/I]. The rules are not constantly superimposing themselves on my in-game experience. Example: 4e marking. * [I]High level of player creativity in character design[/I]. This only increased as new 3.x materials were released. 4e suffers from "sameyness" from the PHB onward. * [I]Vancian magic[/I]. I prefer it. It's part of D&D's core identity. 3e honors it (while giving some options for other paths); 4e pays lip service to it (for wizards, anyway) but essentially reinvents the magic system, to its detriment. * [I]4e has a very artificial feel[/I]. The labels/roles are a big part of that; striker, artillery, leader, minion ... where is the mystery and wonder? The rules encourage metagame thinking and take me out of the game-world and into wargamer mode. Unfortunately, I don't see how I can ignore these problems. With 3.x's bloat issues (particularly for prestige classes), the solution was simply to exercise DM control and exclude the material you didn't want. 4e's problems are [I]inherent[/I]. You can't play 4e without being smacked in the face with design issues every single session. As a side comment, while I agree that 4e is certainly easier for a newbie to grasp due to its simplicity, if my first exposure to D&D was 4e I'd probably say to myself after a few sessions, "why not play WoW instead?" [I]IMO, Wizards forgot why people play D&D in the first place[/I]. I want to play a game of D&D that emphasizes a blend of role-playing, story-telling, exploration, adventure, and yes, exciting combat. I would venture a guess that most of the folks on this forum want the same, though arguably in different proportions. So I want a game system that allows me to do that with minimal intrusiveness. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a boardgame or MMO. For these reasons, I'm starting a pathfinder campaign. [/QUOTE]

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