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<blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 4926602" data-attributes="member: 30678">Soraios, I may not be the biggest fan of 4E, but I must say that I cannot agree with your original post; first of all (and this is already likely pointed out on this thread, but I'm going to repeat it), please remember to include 'in my opinion...', 'I feel that...', 'I think...' etcetera as part of your *opinions*. I simply HATE it when people make blanket statements like &quot;4E is like WoW!&quot; or &quot;3E suxx!&quot; or whatever. It's very impolite and may offend the fans of the edition/system you're criticizing. Secondly, while I prefer 3E/PF, I think the system had (and still has) serious problems that become evident after 11th level (often even sooner); especially if there are both optimizers and non-optimizers in the group and the DM is not experienced enough to know how to adjust things on the fly. Of course, your mileage may vary, but having DMed and played D&amp;D for 20+ years, I think my biggest problems with balance have been in 3E (BTW, in my opinion your example of non-optimized PCs not hitting monsters or NPCs is much, MUCH more likely to happen in 3E than 4E -- try doing it at high levels without any &quot;buffs&quot;, and I'm betting even your &quot;min-maxed&quot; fighter can't hit an optimized NPC 75% of the time).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Primal, post: 4926602, member: 30678"] Soraios, I may not be the biggest fan of 4E, but I must say that I cannot agree with your original post; first of all (and this is already likely pointed out on this thread, but I'm going to repeat it), please remember to include 'in my opinion...', 'I feel that...', 'I think...' etcetera as part of your *opinions*. I simply HATE it when people make blanket statements like "4E is like WoW!" or "3E suxx!" or whatever. It's very impolite and may offend the fans of the edition/system you're criticizing. Secondly, while I prefer 3E/PF, I think the system had (and still has) serious problems that become evident after 11th level (often even sooner); especially if there are both optimizers and non-optimizers in the group and the DM is not experienced enough to know how to adjust things on the fly. Of course, your mileage may vary, but having DMed and played D&D for 20+ years, I think my biggest problems with balance have been in 3E (BTW, in my opinion your example of non-optimized PCs not hitting monsters or NPCs is much, MUCH more likely to happen in 3E than 4E -- try doing it at high levels without any "buffs", and I'm betting even your "min-maxed" fighter can't hit an optimized NPC 75% of the time). [/QUOTE]

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