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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4273149" data-attributes="member: 710">Character Optimization and Power-Gaming definitely existed before MMO entered the stage. I basically do it since I started playing sometime in 2000, way before I ever knew there was something like MUDs or that there would be MMORPGs. I don't play MMORPGs, either. Maybe they're good, maybe they're bad, but they are sure a time sink I don't want to get trapped into. Is "game balance" a feature of MMORPGs? Well, according to some, they certainly don't achieve it yet. So, is it a desirable feature for MMORPGS? It certainly is. Is it a feature also required for RPGs? I think it is. But not neccessarily in the way it is for MMORPGs. Any game that supports Player-vs-Player actions requires a special kind of game-balance. If my Fighter can't beat up your Wizard no matter how smart I play, then the game is broken. But that's not what matters in D&D, where "PvP" is the exception, not the rule. Game Balance in D&D means that any given group has a equal chance to beat up a enemy group of monsters. There are some constraints that can be added to this - for example, not every group, but every group that features certain archetypes (like the optimal 3E party was Cleric, Fighter, Rogue and Wizard, not Bard, Druid, Monk and Sorcerer). 4E is going attempts to make this constraint both more explicit and easier to fulfill. Every class has one of the 4 roles, and if your party covers all 4 roles, you will be fine. "Party" balance also matters in MMORPGs, though. WoW is known for raids with large groups. Something that just can never be done with a table-top game. It is important that all roles are covered in such raids, and that each character is capable of fulfilling at least one role.Does this attempt to achieve game-balance make the game MMORPGish? Or is it rather that MMORPGs are a subset of (role-playing) games like D&D with stricter constraints on game-balance (PvP balance)?---An entirely different concern might be what is considered the "role-playing" aspect of the role-playing game.MMORPGs are generally seen as to be light on role-playing. The major reason for this is that you interact with a static or a scripted enviromnent. Your characters behaviour has only a very limited impact on what happens in the game. You can choose your quests (well, at least that's what I hope), and maybe you're allowed to use some social skills occassionaly. But ultimiately, only a real world person - the DM in D&D - can provide the feedback to create a really immersive world. If your character insults the bartender, he might get angry and throw you out. And someone might hear of it and call you up on it. Or someone might agree with you. Unless this was specifically scripted in the computer game, it won't happen there. Until an edition of D&D explicitly removes the Dungeon Master and replaces all "world-interaction" with table rolls or a computer, you will never have this limitation. Even without a DM, you could still achieve this type of role-playing - if someone of the other players is allowed to decide the world reaction, for instance. (Especially making him a "partial" DM).</blockquote>

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