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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kichwas" data-source="post: 4275429" data-attributes="member: 891">I'll just hit your points in series, even though none of them are what is important in comparing the two things. You've basically picked the weak similarities and then argued why they don't apply, rather than addressing the key issues.Talent points of a WoW character are something you've glossed over here. They pretty much are the equivs of the feat builds of a DnD toon.Gear dependency in the two games is about the same. And there are other MMOs that are much less gear dependent (Guild Wars and City of Heroes to name two - GW's is gear dependent, but the gear is identical for everyone, and near free, so it really isn't).WoW rewards from combat and quests. DnD rewards from combat and quests.PCs in DnD are special. Pay attention to your quests in WoW - you're special too. In both cases, all the specialness is a fantasy in your head unless you do something with it.Balance. WoW and DnD are about the same here as well. Both claim it, both do a decent job on the surface, both has issues in the details due to being complex engines that have an unpredictable human element.Now, some of the things you skipped:- Combat aggro. This is probably minor on some people's minds, but I find it major. DnD is the only table top RPG with an aggro system. That's a "revolution" in table top roleplay to give players the ability to dictate who NPCs will attack. It will result in a massive change in tactics. To see an interesting aspect of this issue, play Guild Wars for a bit - an MMO -without- an aggro system. Guild Wars plays like old DnD did in the combat - the monsters try to geek the mage, the rogues try to sneak around things, archers try to shoot from afar while monsters try to melee them, and fighters have to use body blocking and trip attacks to keep mobs off the 'clothies'...Try being a 'tank' in Guild Wars after you've been a tank in WoW.Or better, the other way around - learn MMO tanking Guild Wars like I did, and then go into WoW and realize that all the other tanks learned how to do it with a big EZ button while you can do everything they do without that button, plus use that button for added effect. As a person who does endgame instancing in both MMOs, I have little respect for WoW tanks.That's how's 4e's going to feel like for people who've learned to play a fighter back before it had an aggro-button... EZ-mode.Ok, a lot of space on one point... Lets be briefer on some of the others.The typed roles.Defender = tankStriker = DPSController = CCLeader = well, Paragon in Guild Wars. Party buffer basically. That -is- a role in WoW, but not a publicly recognized one as it get spread between a couple of toons.WoW's role of healer is not on the list, but... in the City of Heroes MMO you also lack Healer and have something more like a Leader. CoHs calls the role 'Controller' but it works like what DnD calls Leader - buffs, debuffs, and heals.This is a major change for DnD. In the past DnD group did have a set of roles, but they were not so strongly typed. You did want some melee DPS, ranged DPS, heals, and a brain (the toon with all the knowledge skills). Often you needed a face (social skills) too, but DnD players frequently skip this one or fold it into one of the others.The powers... they're structured very differently. When even you 'auto attack' is a power - it's just more like an MMO than an RPG. Old DnD had manuevers and they were varied and people tried all sorts of things. New DnD makes even 'basic attack' a power that everyone gets for free (and which took me 10 minutes to find). The presentation is just fundamentally different even if for many actions the result is the same. This is a paradigm shift more than a mechanic shift, but outside of basic attack it -IS- a mechanic shift as well.Going to hit submit now and come back later when I've got more of the notions ready, and read the rest of the thread before I do in case my thoughts are already covered... But there is more.</blockquote>

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