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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 5114885" data-attributes="member: 32164">Well, if my group's experience is any indication, &quot;grindiness&quot; largely comes down to how an encounter plays out.I've noticed that when the party members forget they're on a team, and don't even try to work together, combat can turn into a grind that devolves into &quot;I'm going to use &lt;power&gt; on that guy. I got a &lt;number&gt;; do I hit?&quot; My KotS group has had a few fights that started to feel like a grind (although the hall of sarcophagi turned out pretty cool).By contrast, I ran nearly the same group of players (with different PCs) through Encounter at Rivenroar on Sunday, getting through the bar fight and the ogre fight in an abbreviated session. Both fights were pretty entertaining, but the ogre one was AWESOME. When they work together as a team, combats play out like a fight scene from an X-Men comic.Terrain, environment, mobility, and threat level seem to be what makes the difference with my group. That ogre had my PCs so scared that they were VERY focused on working together, and the combat ran beautifully. Interestingly, the primary determining factor in &quot;grindiness&quot; with my group seems to be whether the PCs move around or don't. When they stand still, the combat quickly starts to feel like a grind. I think the 4e designers built the game with mobility in mind and that may be the (not terribly well) hidden secret to making 4e combats work. When PCs forget that and just stand still like a 3e character doing a full attack, things get slow. By contrast, motion keeps things interesting. The tavern brawl was fun, but not quite up to what I want out of an encounter like that. The other thing that happens sometimes is if both the PCs and&nbsp; I are having an off-night with the dice. That usually just gets painful, although the fumbles can occasionally be amusing - if they're well-described. But hey, bad luck happens...I'm trying to encourage my players to move more and be more creative in combat (p.42, I love you), but it's definitely an uphill battle.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 5114885, member: 32164"] Well, if my group's experience is any indication, "grindiness" largely comes down to how an encounter plays out. I've noticed that when the party members forget they're on a team, and don't even try to work together, combat can turn into a grind that devolves into "I'm going to use <power> on that guy. I got a <number>; do I hit?" My [i]KotS[/i] group has had a few fights that started to feel like a grind (although the hall of sarcophagi turned out pretty cool). By contrast, I ran nearly the same group of players (with different PCs) through [i]Encounter at Rivenroar[/i] on Sunday, getting through the bar fight and the ogre fight in an abbreviated session. Both fights were pretty entertaining, but the ogre one was AWESOME. When they work together as a team, combats play out like a fight scene from an [i]X-Men[/i] comic. Terrain, environment, mobility, and threat level seem to be what makes the difference with my group. That ogre had my PCs so scared that they were VERY focused on working together, and the combat ran beautifully. Interestingly, the primary determining factor in "grindiness" with my group seems to be whether the PCs move around or don't. When they stand still, the combat quickly starts to feel like a grind. I think the 4e designers built the game with mobility in mind and that may be the (not terribly well) hidden secret to making 4e combats work. When PCs forget that and just stand still like a 3e character doing a full attack, things get slow. By contrast, motion keeps things interesting. The tavern brawl was fun, but not quite up to what I want out of an encounter like that. The other thing that happens sometimes is if both the PCs and I are having an off-night with the dice. That usually just gets painful, although the fumbles can occasionally be amusing - if they're well-described. But hey, bad luck happens... I'm trying to encourage my players to move more and be more creative in combat (p.42, I love you), but it's definitely an uphill battle. [/QUOTE]

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