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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 5116899" data-attributes="member: 20239">I think there are so many causes (many of which are non-mechanical) that any mechanical fix that addresses them all is likely to cause as many problems as it solves. If a group experiences grind because the players choose to design a party that is Defender and Leader heavy, any fix that helps them is going to screw with groups where the players design parties that are Striker heavy. It's also unlikely to help groups who experience grind because the DM is having a problem with encounter design.  It's a neat idea that may be good for other reasons, but I'm not sure it really addresses grind. If the definition of grind is a combat that drags on after the resolution is no longer in question and the PCs have no significant choices to make, then a simpler combat system might (note might, not will) just take every combat and turn it into a grind by further reducing the number of significant choices to be made from the outset. I have also not found that the complex tactical considerations of 4e combat take up a ton of real world time. There are interesting choices to be made, but synergizing interesting tactical options doesn't necessarily take more real world time than every player making a basic attack over and over again. For example, in the other grind thread, I pointed out that my grindy combats take about the same amount of time as some of my most interesting combats (and in some cases, the grinds take less time). The issue isn't real world time per se, it's how much real world time is wasted finishing a fight that has lost any sense of excitement. This is an advantage of simplified rules. However, if the goal is to play a tactically complex game, the newbies are going to have to learn the tactics eventually. If the learning process is a problem, including two options is just postponing the inevitable. Personally, I haven't found that the learning curve for 4e is particularly steep for people who are interested in tactical complexity. For those who aren't interested in learning, they would probably benefit greatly from an alternate, optional, basic combat system (or just playing a different game).</blockquote>

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