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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5117298" data-attributes="member: 22779">I've just started playing 4e, with two different groups and I see the grind in one group but not the other.&nbsp; In the grindy group, there is at least one player, and possible two, who refuses to learn the rules and thus drags the game down into a morass of waiting time between actions.&nbsp; Grr.&nbsp; Simple fights can take three hours.&nbsp; Drives me batty.&nbsp; But, this is not a system issue, but a player one.In the non-grindy group, we get through combats (1st level - Oakhurst Reloaded) in about 40 minutes per combat.&nbsp; I'm playing a Leader, which means I'm forcing other players to act on my turn as well as taking my turn.&nbsp; Generally means that someone is doing something all the time and I think it really focuses attention, which certainly reduces the grind feeling.I'm not sure if the &quot;grind&quot; has more to do with player issues than rule issues to be honest.&nbsp; If you get your players trained (like MerricB has - WOW) then grind goes away completely.&nbsp; A bit of a sit down with the players and forcing them to work through the rules, using power cards that are easily readable, setting up standard formats for taking turns, same as you do in any other game, I think would drastically reduce grind.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5117298, member: 22779"] I've just started playing 4e, with two different groups and I see the grind in one group but not the other. In the grindy group, there is at least one player, and possible two, who refuses to learn the rules and thus drags the game down into a morass of waiting time between actions. Grr. Simple fights can take three hours. Drives me batty. But, this is not a system issue, but a player one. In the non-grindy group, we get through combats (1st level - Oakhurst Reloaded) in about 40 minutes per combat. I'm playing a Leader, which means I'm forcing other players to act on my turn as well as taking my turn. Generally means that someone is doing something all the time and I think it really focuses attention, which certainly reduces the grind feeling. I'm not sure if the "grind" has more to do with player issues than rule issues to be honest. If you get your players trained (like MerricB has - WOW) then grind goes away completely. A bit of a sit down with the players and forcing them to work through the rules, using power cards that are easily readable, setting up standard formats for taking turns, same as you do in any other game, I think would drastically reduce grind. [/QUOTE]

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