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Why is Hoard of the Dragon Queen such a bad adventure?
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<blockquote data-quote="Evhelm" data-source="post: 6477677" data-attributes="member: 6781294"><p>As I've stated elsewhere, I'm enjoying HotDQ so far, but my experience is probably idiosyncratic. <em>Players be warned; possible spoilers ahead!</em></p><p></p><p>I'm running the AP <em>after</em> my players have already saved Phandalin and reached 4th level (The Starter Set was very good, btw!). Some thoughts after reading the entire AP but only running episodes one and two.</p><p></p><p>Pros:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Regarding Episode 1: Since the PCs already met a dragon in the Starter Set, and this one is bigger, they were suitably afraid. Similarly, they were able to do what they needed to do earlier, and hoped they could find a way to do so in Greenest as well. This was a great encounter to remind them (after they'd been real heroes in Phandalin) that the world is still a big and scary place, and they're not always going to be the toughest in the area. For my group, this was encouraging--where there are powerful enemies, there are powerful treasures!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Although the varied play styles of each episode made some of my players uncomfortable (episode two they were particularly squeamish), they're enjoying doing something a little bit different each session.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">By starting the PCs at level 4, instead of level 1, they have a lot more options a lot faster for how to deal with encounters they face. Similarly, they *believe* they are stronger than they were at first level, and so they naturally take on harder challenges all by themselves. I didn't have to modify any encounters significantly to pose a challenge. (The fight at the Temple in Greenest was particularly tough since my PCs chose to take on two of the attacking groups at once!).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The immediacy of the threat to Greenest and the subsequent threat of an *army* camped "in its backyard" has been a tremendous motivator. My players always want to be drawn in; they love having choices, but they hate not having *clear* choices. A "total sandbox" would be terrible for them, and this gives them what they want: clear goals that they can accomplish how they wish.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">We're having fun!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The encounter with Cyanwrath is something my players have never done before: <em>publicly</em> make a life-threatening sacrifice to be noble, or be mercenaries instead of heroes. They were stunned by the reality of their decisions, and enjoyed squirming as the party's martial character was slowly beaten to a pulp by a half-dragon.</li> </ul><p>Cons:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The AP did require a <em>lot</em> of work to prepare on my part. The parts that didn't initially fit together made me go out and find clarification (here on ENWorld and elsewhere) about what the authors intended versus what time/the-state-of-the-rules allowed.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'm uncomfortable with some of the more open-ended pieces that don't seem to change much based on the PCs actions. Episode 4 is the biggest culprit of this; it seems to be a mini tour of the Realms, but it doesn't actually do any touring! Running such an open-ended episode the way it seems intended would take 2-3 times as long as the other episodes and my PCs would feel lost/purposeless for most of it. (Or, they'd get into trouble in a way that could ruin their chances of success in the module later on.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The villains and other NPCs aren't as endearing to me as the LMoP NPCs and villains. I can already tell that they're not quite as memorable for my PCs either, because the random cultists they encounter (which I describe on the fly) are already being referred back to as potential "name-dropping" by me as the DM (i.e. people they expect to see later). The fight with the half-dragon is a notable exception to this: Cyanwrath was both memorable and fun to hate.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">HotDQ is <em>not</em> really playable without intending to also run RoT. I know they're two halves to a whole and this is not surprising, but I still can't really wrap my head around why the PCs would feel they've accomplished anything at the end of the last episode of HotDQ. This seems really, really odd to me. Production-wise, it seems like they should have just released both books together or called them (literally) Part 1 and Part 2.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Evhelm, post: 6477677, member: 6781294"] As I've stated elsewhere, I'm enjoying HotDQ so far, but my experience is probably idiosyncratic. [I]Players be warned; possible spoilers ahead![/I] I'm running the AP [I]after[/I] my players have already saved Phandalin and reached 4th level (The Starter Set was very good, btw!). Some thoughts after reading the entire AP but only running episodes one and two. Pros: [LIST] [*]Regarding Episode 1: Since the PCs already met a dragon in the Starter Set, and this one is bigger, they were suitably afraid. Similarly, they were able to do what they needed to do earlier, and hoped they could find a way to do so in Greenest as well. This was a great encounter to remind them (after they'd been real heroes in Phandalin) that the world is still a big and scary place, and they're not always going to be the toughest in the area. For my group, this was encouraging--where there are powerful enemies, there are powerful treasures! [*]Although the varied play styles of each episode made some of my players uncomfortable (episode two they were particularly squeamish), they're enjoying doing something a little bit different each session. [*]By starting the PCs at level 4, instead of level 1, they have a lot more options a lot faster for how to deal with encounters they face. Similarly, they *believe* they are stronger than they were at first level, and so they naturally take on harder challenges all by themselves. I didn't have to modify any encounters significantly to pose a challenge. (The fight at the Temple in Greenest was particularly tough since my PCs chose to take on two of the attacking groups at once!). [*]The immediacy of the threat to Greenest and the subsequent threat of an *army* camped "in its backyard" has been a tremendous motivator. My players always want to be drawn in; they love having choices, but they hate not having *clear* choices. A "total sandbox" would be terrible for them, and this gives them what they want: clear goals that they can accomplish how they wish. [*]We're having fun! [*]The encounter with Cyanwrath is something my players have never done before: [I]publicly[/I] make a life-threatening sacrifice to be noble, or be mercenaries instead of heroes. They were stunned by the reality of their decisions, and enjoyed squirming as the party's martial character was slowly beaten to a pulp by a half-dragon. [/LIST] Cons: [LIST] [*]The AP did require a [I]lot[/I] of work to prepare on my part. The parts that didn't initially fit together made me go out and find clarification (here on ENWorld and elsewhere) about what the authors intended versus what time/the-state-of-the-rules allowed. [*]I'm uncomfortable with some of the more open-ended pieces that don't seem to change much based on the PCs actions. Episode 4 is the biggest culprit of this; it seems to be a mini tour of the Realms, but it doesn't actually do any touring! Running such an open-ended episode the way it seems intended would take 2-3 times as long as the other episodes and my PCs would feel lost/purposeless for most of it. (Or, they'd get into trouble in a way that could ruin their chances of success in the module later on.) [*]The villains and other NPCs aren't as endearing to me as the LMoP NPCs and villains. I can already tell that they're not quite as memorable for my PCs either, because the random cultists they encounter (which I describe on the fly) are already being referred back to as potential "name-dropping" by me as the DM (i.e. people they expect to see later). The fight with the half-dragon is a notable exception to this: Cyanwrath was both memorable and fun to hate. [*]HotDQ is [I]not[/I] really playable without intending to also run RoT. I know they're two halves to a whole and this is not surprising, but I still can't really wrap my head around why the PCs would feel they've accomplished anything at the end of the last episode of HotDQ. This seems really, really odd to me. Production-wise, it seems like they should have just released both books together or called them (literally) Part 1 and Part 2. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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