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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6479902" data-attributes="member: 2011">That's not the point.What the low level PCs are expected to do is not what a module should wrap a CR 8 encounter around.We have two examples here of where two groups defeated the green dragon in a fight. At least one of these encounters was not with the stock 5 PCs supplied by the module and the only PC options at the time the module came out. One had 6 PCs and the other 8. Both fought the dragon and won, but in one case, the DM was giving out info on exactly where the dragon was and did not play the dragon that intelligently (attacking from the air is almost always better for a dragon so that melee PCs cannot engage) so that the PCs could prepare and attack with their best attacks.But what about groups with 3 PCs? Or 4?Those groups might still have a PC with the background of "I need to go drive off that dragon". But because the game designers put that encounter in there, they are setting up a lot of groups to be TPKed. Sure, some groups will drive off the dragon because of the module's "the dragon flees at half hit points". And some groups will have every PC caught in the breath weapon fail their save (because that's how the dice sometimes roll).You have this 100% backwards. The problem is the assumption, by either the DM or the game designers, that some creatures only exist in modules to NOT be fought.Each DM will run an encounter differently. Each player will react differently. Each group will be a different size. Each PC will have different motivations. By making assumptions that a super powerful creature can be in a module and that PCs should not attack it, they set up PCs to get killed.If a fight does break out (which will happen at many tables), this then puts a DM in the poor position of either playing the creature to its fullest capacities and likely killing off one or more PCs, or playing the creature in a subpar way that the DM normally would not play it in order to fudge and save some PCs.Game designers shouldn't put DMs in this position. Not every encounter should result in a fight, but having vastly more powerful foes will result in PC death at times. Not because the players are playing poorly, but because the encounter was designed in opposition to the goals and desires of their PCs.Adventure designer: "Too bad, you were having badwrongfun by attacking the dragon and not playing the way I designed the encounter, so you get to roll up a new PC."The heck with that. Subpar design by definition.</blockquote>

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