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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cybit" data-source="post: 6489119" data-attributes="member: 66111">Ahh.  On that front, I can see your reasoning.  I do wonder if the idea of the three pillars was being modified during playtest - because the earlier versions of the module are different on even thematic and basic levels.  The "fight" with the dragon, for instance, is pretty different from the first copy we received versus the later copies, at least in terms of execution.  Some episodes that were more grind-y end up being changed to being more freeform, etc.  So, on that second to last paragraph, there's an interesting comment that I think is worth delving into.  "I don't play the game for the game designers to teach me lessons, I play the game to have fun."  I think HotDQ's problem might also be tied to trying to be an intro adventure for new players who've never played D&D as well as veteran gamers.  My playtest group had a couple of die-hards, a couple of moderate players, and a couple of flat-out newbies who I sweet-talked into playing.  Those "lessons" that we know from playing RPGs for a while aren't things new players know - and if you're dealing with people who play lots of other games, especially video games, the idea of unwinnable fights is something that is much more prevalent in TTRPG than other games.  One of my newbie players was the one who "fought" the half-dragon; and it worked really well for him.  He didn't (and most of the party didn't) think that the module would throw a "safe" unwinnable fight so early on. After that, they became far more cautious about engagement. This actually led to episode 7 being far more fun, as they were far more aware of using non-combat solutions to get their way into the castle (I think it's episode 7 that is the castle).  Now for a group of experienced gamers who know all the tropes and are inherently looking at it from a meta-aspect even if not meta-gaming; that kind of "lesson" is annoying as heck.  I would tell folks to check out Rise of Tiamat if you want a better idea of what KP can do; as well as the latter two episodes of HotDQ.  Definitely had a blast doing those.</blockquote>

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