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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 5647796" data-attributes="member: 177">Optimization isn't bad, in and of itself.&nbsp; But it is not appropriate for all groups.&nbsp; Just like *not* optimizing isn't appropriate for all groups - there are tables where, if you're not coming with a fairly tricked-out character, you shouldn't be there at all.If there's a mismatch, in either direction, there will be difficulties.&nbsp; I'll note, by the way, that despite what a couple of folks have said, &quot;competent&quot; is a relative term in gaming, not an absolute one.&nbsp; Competence is being able to handle day-to-day stuff - but what comes along day-to-day is GM dependent.&nbsp; So, if you don't know the table, you can build a character that *you* think is competent, but when you get there is either over- or under-powered.Kzach, you have said you spend hours making up characters, that you &quot;trawl&quot; the character builder looking for options.&nbsp; You use the word &quot;casual&quot;, but your words say that it somewhat more than that.Not everyone has the time to do those things, or the inclination or talent to easily master large swaths of the rules.&nbsp; Your hours of trawling may not result in things that would impress on the CharOps boards, but that doesn't mean they aren't vastly more effective than other characters at the table.Why do you have to be the one to &quot;play down&quot; to them?&nbsp; Why can't they &quot;play up&quot;?&nbsp; Well, as noted before, not everyone has the time or talent.&nbsp; Despite what some have said, it isn't just reading the rulebooks - you yourself spend several hours getting those results.&nbsp; Asking you to &quot;play down&quot; is asking the smallest number of folks to change how they play - biggest payoff for smallest investment, really.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 5647796, member: 177"] Optimization isn't bad, in and of itself. But it is not appropriate for all groups. Just like *not* optimizing isn't appropriate for all groups - there are tables where, if you're not coming with a fairly tricked-out character, you shouldn't be there at all. If there's a mismatch, in either direction, there will be difficulties. I'll note, by the way, that despite what a couple of folks have said, "competent" is a relative term in gaming, not an absolute one. Competence is being able to handle day-to-day stuff - but what comes along day-to-day is GM dependent. So, if you don't know the table, you can build a character that *you* think is competent, but when you get there is either over- or under-powered. Kzach, you have said you spend hours making up characters, that you "trawl" the character builder looking for options. You use the word "casual", but your words say that it somewhat more than that. Not everyone has the time to do those things, or the inclination or talent to easily master large swaths of the rules. Your hours of trawling may not result in things that would impress on the CharOps boards, but that doesn't mean they aren't vastly more effective than other characters at the table. Why do you have to be the one to "play down" to them? Why can't they "play up"? Well, as noted before, not everyone has the time or talent. Despite what some have said, it isn't just reading the rulebooks - you yourself spend several hours getting those results. Asking you to "play down" is asking the smallest number of folks to change how they play - biggest payoff for smallest investment, really. [/QUOTE]

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