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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5647947" data-attributes="member: 61155">Hmm. A few of my thoughts on the various downsides... speaking as someone who tends to optimize and run for highly-optimized parties.  1) You mention not talking about 'char-op' builds and gamebreaking stuff, but it can be hard to draw the line. Is the very effective ranger - who at epic levels fires 10 shots a round, doing three times the damage of other strikers in the party - too optimized? Should he be punished for choosing multi-attack powers and useful damage boosting feats and items? Should he be forced to choose a different Paragon Path other than Punisher of the Gods? How far is too far is a very tough question. 2) I'm a fan of 'optimizing the character you want to build' rather than 'building a character to be optimized'. Which is to say - first, settle on concept. Say you want to be a powerful storm-mage. Then feel free to build the best one you can. That tends to be much better than trying to fit a bunch of disparate mechanics together in order to create an optimized character, and then figuring out a background that makes sense.  Seriously, I've seen some characters like this, and it can get pretty silly. "I am a humble dwarf, raised by drow in the underdark, who apprenticed me out to an elven artificer, who trained me in the ancient heritage of skymagic, and then orcs killed my community, so I pledged myself to the dragon god of vengeance and manifested a powerful dragonmark and..." I mean, some stuff can make for a good story. But the more you choose feats for power alone, and then try to figure out a reason why your character has such things... it can get to be a bit much. 3) As others have mentioned, party disparity is the tough part. Because there is really no good answer - do you intentionally cripple yourself in order to let others shine? An ideal system would let you be as capable as you want without overshadowing everyone else. But without that, asking players to self-monitor... can be frustrating.  Conclusion: I don't think optimizing is bad in-and-of-itself. It may not be as appropriate for every game, and one should be willing to acknowledge and adapt in situations where that may be the case. I tend to recommend trying to optimize within an existing concept, rather than force your concept to fit your optimization, but I recognize not everyone feels the same.</blockquote>

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