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<blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5652138" data-attributes="member: 8835">I don't want to bash 4e.&nbsp; I've only played 1 encounters worth that a friend was demoing, and I certainly never read any of its materials.&nbsp; As such, what I think is based on poorly informed opinion.pre-launch 4e hype advocated a lot of ideas I agreed with.&nbsp; Including making sure everybody had fun stuff to do in combat.Once it shipped, it seems every class had a combat orientation, with less emphasis on other aspects.&nbsp; As on friend lamented from a 3x all-rogue one weekend-long one shot, he didn't think they could have pulled that off in 4e.However, the Stormwind fallacy probably applies.&nbsp; Just because you all kick butt in combat does not mean you can't role-play or be social or steally, sneaky, etc.Thats just my impression, which has no basis in direct experience, and in no way denegrates 4e.&nbsp; People have fun with it, and people play a variety of campaign styles with it.&nbsp; Therefore, as a game system, that's alright.I think the OP could have the same problems in 3e, so I don't see this thread as needing an Edition debate.&nbsp; Yes, the terms and numbers freak me out.&nbsp; But that's because I'm not familiar with that ruleset.&nbsp; But the gist is, Kzach can make some pretty powerful PCs, and his fellow players apparently can't.Thats not a new problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Janx, post: 5652138, member: 8835"] I don't want to bash 4e. I've only played 1 encounters worth that a friend was demoing, and I certainly never read any of its materials. As such, what I think is based on poorly informed opinion. pre-launch 4e hype advocated a lot of ideas I agreed with. Including making sure everybody had fun stuff to do in combat. Once it shipped, it seems every class had a combat orientation, with less emphasis on other aspects. As on friend lamented from a 3x all-rogue one weekend-long one shot, he didn't think they could have pulled that off in 4e. However, the Stormwind fallacy probably applies. Just because you all kick butt in combat does not mean you can't role-play or be social or steally, sneaky, etc. Thats just my impression, which has no basis in direct experience, and in no way denegrates 4e. People have fun with it, and people play a variety of campaign styles with it. Therefore, as a game system, that's alright. I think the OP could have the same problems in 3e, so I don't see this thread as needing an Edition debate. Yes, the terms and numbers freak me out. But that's because I'm not familiar with that ruleset. But the gist is, Kzach can make some pretty powerful PCs, and his fellow players apparently can't. Thats not a new problem. [/QUOTE]

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