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<blockquote data-quote="CuRoi" data-source="post: 5652541" data-attributes="member: 98032">While I see what you are saying about not tailoring everything to a player's precise ability, I do want to point out you can't just ignore their abilities. I think that is what is at the heart of the OP issues.&nbsp;The players are the protagonists of our story (well, usually) and they need to feel that they are the ones empowered to make the most significant changes to the story. If you don't create spotlight moments for them based on their specialized abilities, they simply become pawns to those in the game world that can advance the story. And that may be what this all boils down to - a DM not providing the &quot;non-optimizers&quot; a means to shine and get involved in the story at the same level.&nbsp;As for the OP - I find that players who are really focused on optimizing tend to get bored with story centric games and vice versa so this is often a problem that resolves itself.&nbsp;I have managed to run a middle of the road sort of game that has supported RPers and powergamers alike. I definitely have had trouble balancing encounters before when a player shows up with a &quot;more optimized&quot; build, but I control the source material enough that it has never been bad enough to break a game or draw complaints. I've never asked a player to neuter a build, though I have altered rules before based on feeling they were a bit broken with the group's play style (both for the benefit of the PCs and their detriment and always with their input.) I've also never seen a perfect optimized character with zero weakness. Usually when someone sits down at my table with a &quot;perfect&quot; PC it is highly focused and something of a one-trick pony. The player usually gets bored with it and moves on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CuRoi, post: 5652541, member: 98032"] While I see what you are saying about not tailoring everything to a player's precise ability, I do want to point out you can't just ignore their abilities. I think that is what is at the heart of the OP issues. The players are the protagonists of our story (well, usually) and they need to feel that they are the ones empowered to make the most significant changes to the story. If you don't create spotlight moments for them based on their specialized abilities, they simply become pawns to those in the game world that can advance the story. And that may be what this all boils down to - a DM not providing the "non-optimizers" a means to shine and get involved in the story at the same level. As for the OP - I find that players who are really focused on optimizing tend to get bored with story centric games and vice versa so this is often a problem that resolves itself. I have managed to run a middle of the road sort of game that has supported RPers and powergamers alike. I definitely have had trouble balancing encounters before when a player shows up with a "more optimized" build, but I control the source material enough that it has never been bad enough to break a game or draw complaints. I've never asked a player to neuter a build, though I have altered rules before based on feeling they were a bit broken with the group's play style (both for the benefit of the PCs and their detriment and always with their input.) I've also never seen a perfect optimized character with zero weakness. Usually when someone sits down at my table with a "perfect" PC it is highly focused and something of a one-trick pony. The player usually gets bored with it and moves on. [/QUOTE]

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