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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5655645" data-attributes="member: 42582">I agree that the dictionary stuff is a bit of a distraction. But there's still stuff I want to talk with you about, so don't bow out (please)!In this example, do you think it makes a different whether or not any of those 6 people is a protagonist?I've got in mind this sort of example: I open up my new Spiderman comic. The first page is a splash page, with four thugs threatening an old couple. And on a wall, not yet noticed by the thugs but visible to the reader, is the looming shadow of Spidey.Is this plot? I certainly agree its situation. But arguably, that's because it's setting - four thugs mugging some people who are not in any real sense characters in the drama (at least, not yet) - meets protagonist.The plot would then be, Spidey beats up the thugs. Or, forgetting that with great power comes great responsibility, swings on by, feeling tired at the end of a long day.To bring it back to an RPG example - it was not uncommon, in the good old dungeon-crawling days, and perhaps still is not uncommon, to have rooms which were described in terms of some ongoing or imminent action. For example, as the PCs approach the torture chamber they hear loud screams and a low chuckle, and when they open the door to it they see a hulking torturer persecuting a helpless halfling.Is this setting? I'm not sure what I think, because I'm not sure what's at stake in that description. Once the PCs come onto the scene, it's fairly clear to me that it's situation. Once the PCs start doing things - fighting the torturer, freeing the halfling, grabbing some red hot tongs and joining in proceedings - then there is clearly plot.Is the landslide situation, or plot? To me, it depends on where it comes from in the course of play, what is motivating the GM, how it interacts with the expectations of the players, etc. If everyone at the table has agreed that the PCs are moving out of town up into the foothills, and the GM is giving some general description of the steep inclines, the rugged terrain, etc, and then says "As you make your way up a particularly steep slope, a landslide starts! What do you do?" - I think we have situation, and the beginnings of plot, but the real narrative action - the stuff that the participants actually care about - is yet to happen.On the other hand - the PCs are moving through the foothills looking for their nemesis. High up on a ledge they notice a cave entrance (as the GM explains to the players). What the GM has in mind is that this is a nice foreshadowing of the ultimate fight location - but first, thinks the GM, the PCs'll have to deal with the orcs waiting to ambush them in the box canyon!What the GM has forgotten about is the wizard's levitation spell. The PCs decide to investigate the cave, the wizard using levitation to get up to it, and then dropping a rope down so that the others can climb or be pulled up. The GM, worrying that the sequence of events is going wrong, suddenly says "As the fighter starts to climb up the rope, there is a sudden landslide! The cave mouth is blocked, and the fighter knocked to the ground - take 6d6 damage. Sorry, guys, it looks like you'll have to find another avenue of exploration."This is definitely a case of the GM introducing a plot element to shut down a situation in a way that is thwarting the choices of the players. It's illusionism at best, railroading at worst (depending on how clever the GM is in concealing the use of fiat to shut down the situation, and depending on how much the players care about such things). I personally regard it as bad GMing, or, at least, GMing of a sort that personally I wouldn't want to experience.So - is the landslide setting? situation? plot? I don't think this can be decided in isolation. It depends upon how it fits into the unfolding events of play, the interests of the players in the protagonism of their PCs, etc. You can't tell what's going on, and how much GM force is being used, and whether it is the GM or the players or both who have a given degree of control over the plot, just by noticing that the GM has announced that a landslide occurs.</blockquote>

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