Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why is it so important?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3752782" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I'd agree with that. In fact, I'd say it didn't really start getting fun until 7th level or so when you were likely to get through most of the day without running out of spells. About fifth was just the first level were you got a chance to really play a big role on the team.</p><p></p><p>I think 3rd fixed that to some extent, but it still quite admittedly has problems.</p><p></p><p>Let me do a full confession. I always hated DMing low level wizards because they were so dull mechanically even in the hands of the better players, and because they are so fragile that its hard for me to avoid killing them. (In 3rd edition, I got so notorious about killing off wizards that my players who wanted to be wizards took level 1 in fighter and the accompanying end game power loss just to be durable enough to survive.) Whenever it happened in long term campaigns that a player wanted to be a wizard, I confess that I've been cheating since about age 14. I always borrowed a page from Dragonlance and either had the character start with or quickly find some highly useful magical device that let them play a bigger role right from the start. I do it so often that I'm not going to mind if 'journeyman Wizard's apprenticeship gift inherited from his mentor' becomes a class feature. Typically, it was a ring or staff that would increase the number of minor per day features that the class could do. In modern terms, it would give the character say 3-6 more cantrips per day and maybe some other small bonuses. At low levels this would give the character something to do and wouldn't matter at high levels.</p><p></p><p>So to a certain extent, I am comfortable with the notion of wizards killing the warlock and taking his stuff while losing some of thier phenomenal cosmic power at high levels. If a 1st level wizard could do 'Ray of Frost' as a standard action, and 10th level one could fire a single 'Scorching Ray' as a standard action, I don't think its going to hurt and it might help the game.* But I just don't see 'per encounter' balancing as the way to go here, because I can think of only a very small number of things for a wizard to do 'per encounter' that are interesting and mostly they don't involve spells per se.</p><p></p><p>*On the other hand, given how rapidly 3.X levelling is by default, such a system of 'at will blasts' is not very different than simply assuming that a Wizard will equip themselves with an affordable wand at all times. I've never seen a 3.X edition wand actually run out of charges, unless it was a wand of CLWs or such.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3752782, member: 4937"] I'd agree with that. In fact, I'd say it didn't really start getting fun until 7th level or so when you were likely to get through most of the day without running out of spells. About fifth was just the first level were you got a chance to really play a big role on the team. I think 3rd fixed that to some extent, but it still quite admittedly has problems. Let me do a full confession. I always hated DMing low level wizards because they were so dull mechanically even in the hands of the better players, and because they are so fragile that its hard for me to avoid killing them. (In 3rd edition, I got so notorious about killing off wizards that my players who wanted to be wizards took level 1 in fighter and the accompanying end game power loss just to be durable enough to survive.) Whenever it happened in long term campaigns that a player wanted to be a wizard, I confess that I've been cheating since about age 14. I always borrowed a page from Dragonlance and either had the character start with or quickly find some highly useful magical device that let them play a bigger role right from the start. I do it so often that I'm not going to mind if 'journeyman Wizard's apprenticeship gift inherited from his mentor' becomes a class feature. Typically, it was a ring or staff that would increase the number of minor per day features that the class could do. In modern terms, it would give the character say 3-6 more cantrips per day and maybe some other small bonuses. At low levels this would give the character something to do and wouldn't matter at high levels. So to a certain extent, I am comfortable with the notion of wizards killing the warlock and taking his stuff while losing some of thier phenomenal cosmic power at high levels. If a 1st level wizard could do 'Ray of Frost' as a standard action, and 10th level one could fire a single 'Scorching Ray' as a standard action, I don't think its going to hurt and it might help the game.* But I just don't see 'per encounter' balancing as the way to go here, because I can think of only a very small number of things for a wizard to do 'per encounter' that are interesting and mostly they don't involve spells per se. *On the other hand, given how rapidly 3.X levelling is by default, such a system of 'at will blasts' is not very different than simply assuming that a Wizard will equip themselves with an affordable wand at all times. I've never seen a 3.X edition wand actually run out of charges, unless it was a wand of CLWs or such. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why is it so important?
Top