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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3759733" data-attributes="member: 4937">And wizards in 3rd edition don't do that now?&nbsp; In your game maybe.Perhaps.&nbsp; But even in 3rd edition these things only happen for about 4 levels or so, then the wizard ends up with a wand of magic missiles, a bag full of scrolls, and enough spells per day make a bang in most every combat (and certainly the big ones).&nbsp; And that is plenty wizardly.&nbsp; If a wizard is forced to occasionally hit something with his staff, I'm not sure how that's a problem.As I mentioned earlier, I'm sympathetic to changes that would improve the experience of play through the first four levels or so, and increase balance say above 13th level (current sweet spot is IMO about 4th-12th).&nbsp; However, such sympathy doesn't necessarily endear me to these particular changes which for the most part strike me as unnecessary to achieve what you say you want out of the system.Doug McCrae I think has a much more serious complaint about the system than, 'My wizard isn't during the first couple of levels necessarily always wizardly', and while your problem is easily addressed in the existing system, his isn't.&nbsp; Of course, addressing his problem means making Wizards much less powerful, which if I had to guess is going to force wizards by design to do less in the way of battlefield alteration, ally enhancing, and so forth.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3759733, member: 4937"] And wizards in 3rd edition don't do that now? In your game maybe. Perhaps. But even in 3rd edition these things only happen for about 4 levels or so, then the wizard ends up with a wand of magic missiles, a bag full of scrolls, and enough spells per day make a bang in most every combat (and certainly the big ones). And that is plenty wizardly. If a wizard is forced to occasionally hit something with his staff, I'm not sure how that's a problem. As I mentioned earlier, I'm sympathetic to changes that would improve the experience of play through the first four levels or so, and increase balance say above 13th level (current sweet spot is IMO about 4th-12th). However, such sympathy doesn't necessarily endear me to these particular changes which for the most part strike me as unnecessary to achieve what you say you want out of the system. Doug McCrae I think has a much more serious complaint about the system than, 'My wizard isn't during the first couple of levels necessarily always wizardly', and while your problem is easily addressed in the existing system, his isn't. Of course, addressing his problem means making Wizards much less powerful, which if I had to guess is going to force wizards by design to do less in the way of battlefield alteration, ally enhancing, and so forth. [/QUOTE]

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