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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3797090" data-attributes="member: 18280">Patryn,I was ready to drop this argument and simply wait to see whether or not the same problem cropped up a year after 4e's release.  That, to me, would be evidenciary that the redesign didn't solve the problem.  After all, endlessly spinning one's wheels is absolutely a waste of time.  IMHO, of course.  This is the Interweb, where endless wheel spinning is a competition sport.   <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> But that wasn't good enough, apparently.  I had obviously forgotten that, in addition to argument by endless wheel spinning, misrepresentation of others' viewpoints is also an Interweb sport, especially in the event that they've cleared the field.  Of course, it isn't always easy to tell when someone is doing so intentionally or not; I have been accused of the same.  It is enough, though, to make me take one last foray into the ring.So I am doing my best to avoid Endless Wheel Spinning Syndrome.  It seems clear that this can be done by taking the following steps, in order:(1)  Identify cause(s) of the problem.(2)  Determine whether or not proposed solution(s) address the cause(s) of the problem.(3)  Where proposed solution(s) addresses the cause(s) of the problem, determine if they do so sufficiently to resolve the problem to a reasonable degree.When I did my analysis, this is the order that I followed.  I have received many responses that attempt to suggest that my version of (2) or (3) are flawed, based upon a different (1) that remains undeclared.Until and unless we can agree upon an identified cause of the problem (15-minute adventuring day), there is no point in attempting to analyze any solution.  IMHO, of course.  Therefore, I have no interest at this point in examining (2) or (3) until (1) is resolved.If this is "absolutely rude" then I pray your indulgence.  Or, if you are unable to indulge me in this, your understanding that I am not going to address (2) or (3) until (1) is resolved, whether you (or anyone else) feels like examining (1) or not.Which is also, BTW, why I am trying to narrow down your response into something that can be examined in light of the question "What is the cause(s) of the 15-minute adventuring day problem?"  The more concise and clear the answer you give is, the easier it is to examine it to see if, indeed, it is the (or one of the) cause(s).So, is it fair to say that you posit that the 15 minute adventuring day problem happens because you use your best (wizardly) resources very quickly, and then need to rest to recover them, coupled with the perception that your remaining resources don't feel "wizardy" to you. Again, is this correct?</blockquote>

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