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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 3833001" data-attributes="member: 467">This underscores oneof the elements that gives rise to the "resting at 9:15" nonesense -- the time scale in 3.x is grossly underestimated.  Even forgiving six second rounds -- which totaly fly in the face of the abstract D&D combat system, with hit points and AC and such -- there was a reason a turn was 10 minutes in 1E and 2E.  it takes a long time to figure out where you are going in an unfamilair, often dark environment.  Ever go "exploring" in an old warehouse or hospital or similar place.  It takes a long time.  You are looking at stuff.  You're being careful.  You get turned around.  Things are uncertain.  Now, throw in the fact that there is actually stuff in there that wants to kill you and there's very likely to be valuable stuff hidden in the crannies and crevaces, and you are talking a very involved kind of exploration.  For being "back to the dungeon" -- which, don't get me wrong, I appreciate after 2E's complete failure to even mention them in the DMG -- 3E didn't thinka  whole lot about them outside of the monsters, doors and traps paradigm.But this is the same issue that comes up again and again -- exploration does not seem to be part of the game design or the playstyle much anymore.  Of course you are going to be through 4 encounters by noon if there are only room after room of challenges broken down into 6 second increments.  Dead ends, uncrossable chasms, mazes, side passages and mini dungeons -- these were all hallmarks of D&D that have been forgotten.  Of course people fele the game has to change, because it was designed to do something different than it has been being used for.The problem, for me anyway, is that the way it was intended is far superior an experience and far more fun a game.  Not only that, I *can* do old school in 3E, I just have to be aware of the differences in design and account for them.  The design goal of 4E, between the encounter based resources and the dungeons-as-gauntlets paradigm, seems to be putting the nail in the coffin of old school play, which might not have been the default of 3E but was certainly possible and even supported (prior to late 3.5/transition to 4E).</blockquote>

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