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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3833550" data-attributes="member: 18280">We've already discussed a number of types of &quot;cost&quot; for resting.&nbsp; You can use story costs (ex., &quot;At noon the X will kill the Y, so we can't rest now&quot;, or the poison gas in Secret Shrine of Tomachan [sp?] that kills you if you don't escape the dungeon in X hours).&nbsp; However, constant use of story costs strikes some (including myself) as heavy-handed.&nbsp; You can use mechanical costs (resting more than X times in Y space of time has mechanical disadvantage Z).&nbsp; You can use verisimilitude costs (characters simply are not tired/wandering monsters may come).I'm sure there are many, many more examples of costs that can be used.For reasons outlined already I believe that the structure thus far revealed for 4e is going to encourage nova-ing more than 3.X does.&nbsp; Having to rest after 3-4 encounters is not, IMHO, greatly different than having to rest after one.If you follow the CR/EL guidelines, you should certainly be able to have more than 3-4 encounters, because not every encounter will be of APL or over.&nbsp; I myself am capable of running a game with far more than 3-4 encounters, using unmodified 3.0 or 3.5, that is fun and challenging to my players.&nbsp; Yet, it seems common (and the Interweb may exaggerate how common it is!) that many groups cannot do so.Why?Because they eschew the lower-than-APL encounters for the &quot;exciting&quot; APL or higher encounters.&nbsp; This uses up resources quickly.&nbsp; It is, in fact, a &quot;slow nova&quot; effect.APL or higher encounters are only more exciting than other encounters if your main determinant of excitement in these encounters is the mechanical one.&nbsp; Otherwise, you can easily have dozens of exciting encounters each day using other thesholds of significance.If you are only exciting by encounters in 3.x that reach a certain mechanical theshold of significance, what are the odds that you are going to be exciting for long by encounters 4e that fail to reach even that mechanical theshold of significance?To make encounters exciting for these groups, it will not take long for them to need to use Meteor Swarm, even though they could use Fireball in every encounter.&nbsp; Rather than 3-4 encounters before resting, they'll be going 1-2 encounters.&nbsp; And, if combat is streamlined, that will take a lot less game time (we can only hope).(NOTE:&nbsp; We are already hearing complaints that fighting mooks in the SW: SAGA system is too easy.)Hence, I don't believe that these groups will benefit in the long term.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3833550, member: 18280"] We've already discussed a number of types of "cost" for resting. You can use story costs (ex., "At noon the X will kill the Y, so we can't rest now", or the poison gas in Secret Shrine of Tomachan [sp?] that kills you if you don't escape the dungeon in X hours). However, constant use of story costs strikes some (including myself) as heavy-handed. You can use mechanical costs (resting more than X times in Y space of time has mechanical disadvantage Z). You can use verisimilitude costs (characters simply are not tired/wandering monsters may come). I'm sure there are many, many more examples of costs that can be used. For reasons outlined already I believe that the structure thus far revealed for 4e is going to encourage nova-ing more than 3.X does. Having to rest after 3-4 encounters is not, IMHO, greatly different than having to rest after one. If you follow the CR/EL guidelines, you should certainly be able to have more than 3-4 encounters, because not every encounter will be of APL or over. I myself am capable of running a game with far more than 3-4 encounters, using unmodified 3.0 or 3.5, that is fun and challenging to my players. Yet, it seems common (and the Interweb may exaggerate how common it is!) that many groups cannot do so. Why? Because they eschew the lower-than-APL encounters for the "exciting" APL or higher encounters. This uses up resources quickly. It is, in fact, a "slow nova" effect. APL or higher encounters are only more exciting than other encounters if your main determinant of excitement in these encounters is the mechanical one. Otherwise, you can easily have dozens of exciting encounters each day using other thesholds of significance. If you are only exciting by encounters in 3.x that reach a certain mechanical theshold of significance, what are the odds that you are going to be exciting for long by encounters 4e that fail to reach even that mechanical theshold of significance? To make encounters exciting for these groups, it will not take long for them to need to use Meteor Swarm, even though they could use Fireball in every encounter. Rather than 3-4 encounters before resting, they'll be going 1-2 encounters. And, if combat is streamlined, that will take a lot less game time (we can only hope). (NOTE: We are already hearing complaints that fighting mooks in the SW: SAGA system is too easy.) Hence, I don't believe that these groups will benefit in the long term. RC [/QUOTE]

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