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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 3833804" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>That's the point where I (quite often now <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ) disagree with you. Novaing in 3rd edition is _very_ powerful. The difference between the power you require to succeed and the power you can expend to succeed (quickly and deciesive) is big. (in an average encounter, you can expend up to 4 times as much power as expected!)</p><p></p><p>The range in 4th edition is lower. You can only get 20 % more "oomph" when novaing. The benefits are lower when novaing, and, more importantly, it's also no longer as important as it used to be. The most difficult encounter you can reasonaly engage in can't require you to take more than these extra 20 %. It can't increase its difficulty by 300 %. </p><p></p><p>If the range is lower, it probably also means that people will have a harder time figuring out if the current encounter requires to expend daily resources or not. Some might waste them to often (and run into the short adventuring day problem), but I suspect most will wait to expend them. (I base that on my experience that most spellcasters don't like to risk high level resources. If your experience differs, this assumption might be wrong. At least for the groups you have experience with). I also think that this makes good tactics and team work more important, because sometimes, they can give you the 20 % extra, instead of your Meteor Swarm...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Your reasoning might be quite correct here, and it is in my experience simply because lower than APL encounters don't offer risks (unless the opponents happens to have Save or Die spells). If there is at least two characters in the group that don't rely on magic and are competent in either ranged or melee combat (basically anyone with a BAB of a Rogue), they can deal with it without the help of the real casters. And in my experience, that is not satisfying for the casters (especially those that don't rely on spell). But if they decide to intervene, they not only waste resources, they probably eliminate the fun the others had beating down the mooks attacking them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 3833804, member: 710"] That's the point where I (quite often now :) ) disagree with you. Novaing in 3rd edition is _very_ powerful. The difference between the power you require to succeed and the power you can expend to succeed (quickly and deciesive) is big. (in an average encounter, you can expend up to 4 times as much power as expected!) The range in 4th edition is lower. You can only get 20 % more "oomph" when novaing. The benefits are lower when novaing, and, more importantly, it's also no longer as important as it used to be. The most difficult encounter you can reasonaly engage in can't require you to take more than these extra 20 %. It can't increase its difficulty by 300 %. If the range is lower, it probably also means that people will have a harder time figuring out if the current encounter requires to expend daily resources or not. Some might waste them to often (and run into the short adventuring day problem), but I suspect most will wait to expend them. (I base that on my experience that most spellcasters don't like to risk high level resources. If your experience differs, this assumption might be wrong. At least for the groups you have experience with). I also think that this makes good tactics and team work more important, because sometimes, they can give you the 20 % extra, instead of your Meteor Swarm... Your reasoning might be quite correct here, and it is in my experience simply because lower than APL encounters don't offer risks (unless the opponents happens to have Save or Die spells). If there is at least two characters in the group that don't rely on magic and are competent in either ranged or melee combat (basically anyone with a BAB of a Rogue), they can deal with it without the help of the real casters. And in my experience, that is not satisfying for the casters (especially those that don't rely on spell). But if they decide to intervene, they not only waste resources, they probably eliminate the fun the others had beating down the mooks attacking them. [/QUOTE]
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