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<blockquote data-quote="Kilroy" data-source="post: 1968720" data-attributes="member: 5299">The sorceror tried an area affect spell, did maybe 40 points of damage to some of the 20 archers, and promptly got dropped to negative HP on their next action.&nbsp; Area spells are useless at higher levels, all they do is get the caster killed because they don't do nearly enough damage to even take out minions.&nbsp; Unfortunantly, he was the arcane caster with fly, and I can only cast fly once a day (Travel domain).Ranged attacks are also useless if a character isn't heavily specilized in them.&nbsp; When each of 20 targets has about 80 hp, and our fighter's arrows only doing d8+4, it will take a long time and an entire quiver of arrows to drop a couple targets.&nbsp; That's why the fighter ended up cutting down trees with her adamantine greatsword -&nbsp; out of game she knew that the archers would each take two dozen arrows to kill, but only a couple sword swings.My character is a Sacred Fist with a vow of poverty, so magic items and ranged attacks are both out.Last night's fight just didn't have anything like a fantasy feel.&nbsp; It turned into a min/max munchkinfest, and I really don't like it when we have to do that to survive, because the rules are crippling us when we try to do things in a way that looks cinematic.&nbsp; If we hadn't resorted to nonsensical metagamey actions, it would have been a TPK, and that doesn't seem like a fun way to play D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kilroy, post: 1968720, member: 5299"] The sorceror tried an area affect spell, did maybe 40 points of damage to some of the 20 archers, and promptly got dropped to negative HP on their next action. Area spells are useless at higher levels, all they do is get the caster killed because they don't do nearly enough damage to even take out minions. Unfortunantly, he was the arcane caster with fly, and I can only cast fly once a day (Travel domain). Ranged attacks are also useless if a character isn't heavily specilized in them. When each of 20 targets has about 80 hp, and our fighter's arrows only doing d8+4, it will take a long time and an entire quiver of arrows to drop a couple targets. That's why the fighter ended up cutting down trees with her adamantine greatsword - out of game she knew that the archers would each take two dozen arrows to kill, but only a couple sword swings. My character is a Sacred Fist with a vow of poverty, so magic items and ranged attacks are both out. Last night's fight just didn't have anything like a fantasy feel. It turned into a min/max munchkinfest, and I really don't like it when we have to do that to survive, because the rules are crippling us when we try to do things in a way that looks cinematic. If we hadn't resorted to nonsensical metagamey actions, it would have been a TPK, and that doesn't seem like a fun way to play D&D. [/QUOTE]

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