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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pvandyck" data-source="post: 1968767" data-attributes="member: 6885">I too would be very irritated by a skill that is seldom used eating up my points.As a DM, I've tried hard to work in Balance, Jump, and Climb (I don't need to try to work in Tumble).  I've had to include terrain elements that make it usefull to have points in these skills.I've rubble on the floor (DC 10 balance check to move normally, fail and you can only move 1/2, fail by 5 and you fall down).I've had 5' ledges and platforms (DC 10 to jump up as a free action/part of movement, fail and it's a move action all by itself to get up there, fail by 5 and you didn't get up with that move action).I've had chests and other furniture taking up squares characters want to be in for tactical reasons (DC 10 to jump up as a free action/part of movement, fail and it's a move action all by itself, fail by 5 and you didn't get up there wasting a move action, then I require a DC 10 - 15 balance check to be stable on this object, -2 on attack and defense if fail, fall off if fail by 5 or more).I've had fights with creatures that have a climb speed (like rats and rat-men), so they can take 10 in combat on climb, in terrain with lots of climbable areas (DC 10-15).  Kinda interesting.Since you can't take 10 in combat, some of this becomes actually a risk. Some of this is by the RAW, some not, I think.  But, without my effort as DM thinking up this and other ways to use the terrain, these skills can become pretty useless.  I found the terrain and environment sections of the SRD a good read. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />On the other hand, in my campaign, Appraise is almost useless.  I keep a very tight control on party total GP value (including items) and try to keep it close to the recommendations for average character wealth recommended in the DMG.  I require the players to be able to give me their total worth at a moments notice.  Consequently, purchasing or selling items is by the book value, almost without exception, in order to keep this system workable.  No real haggling with Appraise or Bluff or Diplomacy.  Since Bluff and Diplomacy have other uses that I use often, Appraise falls by the wayside.  However, I don't screw my players if they end up with points there, I let them shift them.pvandyck</blockquote>

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