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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 690011" data-attributes="member: 4937">In my experience, the problem is that it occurs to the exclusion of all other activities. I'd really prefer to separate min/maxing from ego gaming, even though they often go together.&nbsp; An ego gamer doesn't have to be someone who is a good min/maxer, and a good min/maxer doesn't have to be an ego gamer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The ego gamer has character backgrounds filled with phrases like &quot;powerfully built&quot;, &quot;master of the ancient art&quot;, &quot;kicks ass&quot;, &quot;moves with cat-like grace&quot;, and &quot;so handsome he takes women's breath away&quot;.&nbsp; The ego gamer doesn't try to get into character.&nbsp; The ego gamer's character is who he or she wants to be.But that is a whole other topic.Min/maxing doesn't bother me that much, provided it is taken in perspective, provided the system isn't that broken, and provided that the DM is pretty good at insisting that a disadvantage a real disadvantage (which I am).&nbsp;&nbsp; Min/maxing is to a certain extent part of the game.&nbsp; No one expects fighters to take subpar Con, Dex, AND Str.&nbsp;&nbsp; There is expectation that the character will be highly skilled at something and will be built with a certain ammount of appropriateness to the expected challenges.Where it becomes a problem is when the character devolves into a spreadsheet and has just as much personality.&nbsp;&nbsp; It becomes a problem when the player in question starts treating the game like a CRPG and stays OOC all the time and only interacts with me in an OOC fashion.&nbsp; That just doesn't entertain me (and probably doesn't entertain alot of dungeon masters for long.)&nbsp; Typically, alot of these players spend half the night talking with other players about thier plans for thier characters and trying to get approval for some feat they saw in some book that they have calculated will give them an extra +1 attack bonus.&nbsp; It's just dull.If you spend as much time developing your characters personality as you do his abilities, whether you min/max or not, I usually don't have a problem.&nbsp; Interact with your fellow gamers (DM's and PC's) in a IC manner, and be entertaining and the rest will take care of itself.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 690011, member: 4937"] In my experience, the problem is that it occurs to the exclusion of all other activities. I'd really prefer to separate min/maxing from ego gaming, even though they often go together. An ego gamer doesn't have to be someone who is a good min/maxer, and a good min/maxer doesn't have to be an ego gamer. The ego gamer has character backgrounds filled with phrases like "powerfully built", "master of the ancient art", "kicks ass", "moves with cat-like grace", and "so handsome he takes women's breath away". The ego gamer doesn't try to get into character. The ego gamer's character is who he or she wants to be. But that is a whole other topic. Min/maxing doesn't bother me that much, provided it is taken in perspective, provided the system isn't that broken, and provided that the DM is pretty good at insisting that a disadvantage a real disadvantage (which I am). Min/maxing is to a certain extent part of the game. No one expects fighters to take subpar Con, Dex, AND Str. There is expectation that the character will be highly skilled at something and will be built with a certain ammount of appropriateness to the expected challenges. Where it becomes a problem is when the character devolves into a spreadsheet and has just as much personality. It becomes a problem when the player in question starts treating the game like a CRPG and stays OOC all the time and only interacts with me in an OOC fashion. That just doesn't entertain me (and probably doesn't entertain alot of dungeon masters for long.) Typically, alot of these players spend half the night talking with other players about thier plans for thier characters and trying to get approval for some feat they saw in some book that they have calculated will give them an extra +1 attack bonus. It's just dull. If you spend as much time developing your characters personality as you do his abilities, whether you min/max or not, I usually don't have a problem. Interact with your fellow gamers (DM's and PC's) in a IC manner, and be entertaining and the rest will take care of itself. [/QUOTE]

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