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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clark411" data-source="post: 690295" data-attributes="member: 4768">To move in a different line (unless I missed it above), min-maxing players often run out of character concepts far far faster than their counterparts who do not.  It takes a good while, years maybe, but the combinations are limited, the characters cookie cutter/stereotypical.  Instead of thinking "Oh, I have yet to play a mercenary," a min-maxer may end up saying "I've already done the Fighter / Rogue." or "The Sword and Fist or Merc PrCs are too weak / too heavy with prereqs that will drop my character's power."This is a long way off for a new min-maxer, and possibly something many will never face if their DMs do not seek to challenge them sufficiently (and subsequently killing off their characters).Also, there's another issue with min-maxers- in order to present them a challenge (lest they go Ah-Ha! Nothing can stop me!... I'm bored) a DM is forced to use bigger and badder combos and tactics.  The traps laid forth are more powerful, more lethal.. the enemies use tactics or have double their usual hit points simply so the min-maxing raging spiked-chain barbarian Spellsword (well.. Spell Chain?) doesn't wipe them all out in the first round of combat.  This in effect, makes the game far more lethal for the others in the group who do not min-max, and the DM has to (or maybe does not have to) make a conscious effort to avoid killing the standard players less than he does the min-maxer over the course of the entirety of the campaign (say 1 fight in 4 or 8 the MMer is the prime target or most hit).  Enemies will head to the most powerful character, they'll gang up- kill him.  The player, perhaps noticing the attention, will feel resentful.  He or she will also feel that his character was not powerful enough... and will build another character even More powerful than before, using whatever means possible perhaps to get just the slightest of edges.  Vicious circle</blockquote>

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