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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 2910563" data-attributes="member: 9037">I have noticed that in a lot of these type threads it seems to come down to a all or nothing. You are either a min/maxer or you build sub optimal characters. You are either a roll player who does not care about story or a role player who does not care about rules so they should just get into acting instead. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> There is nothing wrong with some min/maxing. If you want your character to be really good at one thing like say a combat monster then you would min/max thoese skills and stats. You would be sucky at social situations but that could be fun role playing. Min/maxing becomes a problem when it is done to the extreme so that you have one PCs who is just so much more powerful than any of the others that they ended up just taking over and sucking the fun for the rest of the players.Building a character who is different and not taking the obvious advantages say for example building a fighter who is very charismatic so you have a higher chrasima stat then stregth and you take a lot of cross class skills in things like diplomacy and the leadership feat is a very valid character and not as sub optimal as some would have you believe.Now building what I call lame duck characters is a problem. Because you have to be able to contribute to what the party does. Its not fair to expect the rest of the party to carry your character. I am having a problem with this in my game with a player who can't seem to grasp that her charcter is a liability for the party. She is playing rogue who does not fight nor does she have anything to do with traps  she is all about using her seduction skills to survive. She hides when they get into a combat sitution. The rest of the party is ready to throw her to the wolves at this point. And the player does not get it. I tried to sterr her into playing a begiler which would fit her better and give her some magic to boot which would help the party.</blockquote>

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