Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 2910866" data-attributes="member: 7635">here is my 2 epMin-Maxing has to do with character OPTIMIZATION, not role in story. D&D requires a level of optimization in its core. Fighters who want to be good in combat put a high score in strength. wizards who like to learn additional spells dump ranks in spellcraft. Certainly, the advent of feats, free multi-classing, and prestige classes have allowed a new level of optimization 1e/2e didn't dream of. For example, if I want my cleric to be the best healer in the world, I choose the healing domain. And Augment Healing feat. And take levels in Combat Medic. Etc. Now, I've sacrificed some ability in other areas to be awesome at healing. m/M. D&D ENCOURAGES THIS. Classes are good at one thing (combat, skills, magic, healing) and usually only ok or poor at another. Generalists tend to suck compared to a specialist. The whole system of checks and balances force certain characters into certain roles, and it IS the number one complaint about D&D's class-system (compare to True d20 or a classless like GURPS). There comes a point though, when you can become TOO optimized. The fighter has sank every feat, skill and level into rocking a boat-load of damage, or a socerer who has found a way to make the Save DCs for his spells unbeatable. That is powergaming. When you become SO goot at one thing that you cannot lose when dealing with it, it becomes hard and/or boring for the DM to challenge that aspect, cuz he knows your going to win.Powergaming is common in combat (since its a heavy aspect of D&D) but spellcasters, social-gadflys (do you know how easy it is to get your diplomacy sky-high?) and even sneakers (hide/move silents) are not unheard of. However, despite the fact you have juked the system for every-last +1 bonus, you can still role-play that character. Perhaps he has an obsession to be the best, perhaps he is unnaturally good at that element. Munchkinism is when you have crossed from being good at one thing into being good at a whole-lot of stuff and your character is practically unchallengable. 2e was the field day for this, but I've seen it across all editions. Some mix of race, template, class, prestige, feat, spells, and magical do-hickys have rendered this character an incredible AC, immunity to most forms of death, easy ability to hit/damage, good spells, and good enough skills not to fail all but the most insane DCs. He never outstrips the Powergamer in the PGs forte (the munchkins Hide/MS is not as good as the dedicated powergamers) but he's better than everyone elses who didn't focus on that. Thus, the munchkin steals the spotlight because he CAN, he's fast enough, smart enough, skilled enough, and tough enough to survive most anything the DM can throw at him, and is never really "challenged" by the game at all. Like playing "DOOM" with the god-mode on. (and I wager the same players who build munchkins play DOOM with the cheats on when they claim they "beat it"). Interestly, NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH ROLE-PLAYING. m/M, Powergamers, and munchkins are all capable of coming up with unique, interesting, and even touching characters. I gamed with a group of them: the powergamer had one of the most interesting and rp-full backstories I've ever seen. The munchkin was an amazing method actor. However, neither of them liked to LOSE! So they rigged the system (this was 2e) to make sure they could live against anything short of a demon-lord. On the other hand, my newbie g/f gamer had sub-optimized scores and abilities and role-played her like "what would I do if I was here" and not as a character... m/M and r-p have a negative correlation, but that does not that imply causation, as some people believe. So, m/M is a key element to the game, but it can become too key for certain players. However like most things, a little in moderation isn't bad, and probably has some health benefits as well.</blockquote>

Verification