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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Izerath" data-source="post: 2911489" data-attributes="member: 6743">Similar SentimentsI echo the above. The general reputation and "dislike" of min/maxing is the fact that many powergamers I'VE ENCOUNTERED take the abuse to a level of dishonesty that degrades trust. Lemme give  apersonal example to help clarify.I have a powergamer in my group. He's VERY GOOD at it. I actually appreciate his ideas, because they help point out to me areas where I should be watchful. For a while he min/maxed his PC and it became obvoius to others that he had some insane modifiers to skills, attacks, etc. that far outstripped their own. They cried foul. I examined the PC at the group's request and found, that while everything was legal according to published rules, he had expolited rules that by themselves look innocent enough, but when combined with others produced synergetic aftershocks that actually disrupted play.Now I also agree that this is something all DM's have to deal with as a reality, but should it be? No. Better playtesting would show us that these combinations prove disruptive to balanced play, but who's responsibility is it? the DM? the players, the publishers? I'm not entirely sure.What I do know is I asked the player to run things by me before he just used some rule or combination. I began to "approve" material before it was allowed into play and often gave new rules "trial periods" so I could assess the impact on the game. I reserved the right to change my mind or change the rules so things would be fair to all. I also flat out asked the "powergamer" to help me manage this aspect of the game because the other players felt cheated. Fortunately, we're really good friends, he agreed, and now the entire group asks him for ideas, while at the same time, if he sees something that's "too good to be true", he points it out to me and even writes up some notes on how it can really create advantages that are mind boggling.So I don't mind min/maxing - I think it can actually help a game, but what I don't appreciate are people trying to "pull the wool over my eyes" by not being honest about how they generated the PC they play or being selfish in not sharing the same advantages with other players so they too can enjoy the game in the same ways.In this sense, the powergamers I've encountered don't "disclose" their "trade secrets" like it's some competition over who can do the most with the least. Some view it as a "me vs. the DM" scenario and that too is unhealthy. As a DM I try to challenge my players, not kill them. If everything was a cakewalk, it victories would not be rewarding and the game would become boring for all involved. The bottom line - get your powegamer to share and alert you to things he thinks are "cool" and not only will the rest of the players have a little more fun trying to find the golden nugget, you as the DM will have a built in alert system to head off any disruptive mechanics.I think that's where the doubt and suspicion is generated - by just a few bad apples. A shame really.....</blockquote>

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