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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Numion" data-source="post: 3885043" data-attributes="member: 124">Exactomundo! Clerics are quite adept at ass-kicking. With the right buffs they will kick more ass than the fighter. This cleric un-funness was never an issue in our games. And yes we had the group tactics pegged down quite well. Its just that all things considered healing is usually the least efficient action the cleric can perform. The monsters damage output in 3E is quite high - more than the cleric can match with the puny healing (now Heal and Mass Heal are different) - so its usually more efficient to try to put down the enemies as fast as possible.That will even reduce the need for healing - when battle is over quickly, less damage is dealt. Cleric actively spending rounds healing 20 points instead of dealing a 100 points of damage just isn't very practical.Teamwork is D&D combat is much more than clerics being obliged to cure. And I don't feel that just by virtue of choosing a cleric the player would be obliged to heal. 3E has a lot of different types of clerics - you can be a 2-h sword swinging bad ass as well as a healer. If my group demanded that I heal all the time, I'd just make a fighter or wizard and kick ass with that - in any case they'd waste their effort in trying to get me to heal all the time.Now, I'm not saying I'd actively oppose healing - there are situations where healing is the best choice. Usually that is between combats (from Cure Wands), and sometimes during combat. A cleric optimized for kicking ass is usually most effective when he's doing just that. And in my experience a group with the standard wizard, fighter, rogue and healer cleric will fare worse than the group with wizard, fighter, rogue and ass-kicker cleric.In short: the problem never materialized for our group once some wise-ass munchkin generated the legendary Dwarven cleric "Hathar", who happily kicked more ass than any fighter ever had. I think I banned a couple of spells because of that character (he used miracle to emulate polymorph and went around in stonegiant form  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> )</blockquote>

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