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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 9371173" data-attributes="member: 2013">In a recent Matt Colville livestream, he mused a little bit about the Gish, to wit, he noted he feels to some degree, the Gish arises out of the following:1. In a class-based RPG, you are usually asked to pick one thing you are an expert at (your class). For instance, you can be great at swords (fighter) OR spells (mage).2. Matt stated his belief is there is always some percentage of the population that react to the choice &quot;pick A or B&quot; with a reflexive &quot;I refuse! I MUST have both A AND B!&quot;In my head, this reflexive refusal most often comes from a player that wants his character to be good at everything rather than simply indecisiveness. This could be the &quot;I want to be the star&quot; syndrome or perhaps &quot;I don't feel I can rely on others, so I don't like playing a role on a team&quot; or it could be a &quot;I want absolutely no weaknesses&quot; or it could be &quot;martial fighting looks fun, spellcasting looks fun, and I have a fear of missing out.&quot; I understand that Gandalf used Glamdring in LotR and that never bothered me, but probably because I never saw Gandalf as trying to cast himself as the martial equal of Aragon, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, etc. I feel wanting to be &quot;good at everything&quot; is a sign of immaturity, as I find flaws make a character just as (perhaps more) interesting than strengths.So I think I'm coming to most tables with a presupposition about the PLAYER whenever someone unfurls a Gish character sheet (&quot;oh, boy, we got a diva here&quot; or &quot;well, I can already tell this person won't play well with others&quot;), whether I am a player or a DM. In other words, when I see &quot;Gish&quot; I think &quot;toxic player&quot; - and I think that's baggage that I am carrying to the table rather than baggage that player is bringing to the table (though like most of us, I have seen players bringing exactly the &quot;I have to be Superman&quot; baggage to the table, but that's on a case-by-case basis and is certainly not limited to playing a Gish).Help me understand other reasons people might have for desiring to play a gish so I can find some ways to model players in my head that don't come with this negativity baked in, please. Even if I don't think I'll ever want to play a Gish myself, I'd like to rid myself of negativity towards players that do. Thank you!EDIT: In other words, &quot;I don't find the Gish concept compelling and because I personally can't think of reasons to find it compelling except ones I find distasteful, I think players that find the Gish concept compelling are lame. I'm not asking you to convince me Gishes are cool - that's a matter of taste. What I DO want is to provide me some reasons that OTHERS may find it compelling that are different than what I modeled above so that I can pick some that I don't find distasteful and thus overcome my bias against players that like playing Gishes.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 9371173, member: 2013"] In a recent Matt Colville livestream, he mused a little bit about the Gish, to wit, he noted he feels to some degree, the Gish arises out of the following: 1. In a class-based RPG, you are usually asked to pick one thing you are an expert at (your class). For instance, you can be great at swords (fighter) OR spells (mage). 2. Matt stated his belief is there is always some percentage of the population that react to the choice "pick A or B" with a reflexive "I refuse! I MUST have both A AND B!" In my head, this reflexive refusal most often comes from a player that wants his character to be good at everything rather than simply indecisiveness. This could be the "I want to be the star" syndrome or perhaps "I don't feel I can rely on others, so I don't like playing a role on a team" or it could be a "I want absolutely no weaknesses" or it could be "martial fighting looks fun, spellcasting looks fun, and I have a fear of missing out." I understand that Gandalf used Glamdring in LotR and that never bothered me, but probably because I never saw Gandalf as trying to cast himself as the martial equal of Aragon, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, etc. I feel wanting to be "good at everything" is a sign of immaturity, as I find flaws make a character just as (perhaps more) interesting than strengths. So I think I'm coming to most tables with a presupposition about the PLAYER whenever someone unfurls a Gish character sheet ("oh, boy, we got a diva here" or "well, I can already tell this person won't play well with others"), whether I am a player or a DM. In other words, when I see "Gish" I think "toxic player" - and I think that's baggage that [I]I[/I] am carrying to the table rather than baggage that player is bringing to the table (though like most of us, I have seen players bringing exactly the "I have to be Superman" baggage to the table, but that's on a case-by-case basis and is certainly not limited to playing a Gish). Help me understand other reasons people might have for desiring to play a gish so I can find some ways to model players in my head that don't come with this negativity baked in, please. Even if I don't think I'll ever want to play a Gish myself, I'd like to rid myself of negativity towards players that do. Thank you! EDIT: In other words, "I don't find the Gish concept compelling and because I personally can't think of reasons to find it compelling except ones I find distasteful, I think players that find the Gish concept compelling are lame. I'm not asking you to convince me Gishes are cool - that's a matter of taste. What I DO want is to provide me some reasons that OTHERS may find it compelling that are different than what I modeled above so that I can pick some that I don't find distasteful and thus overcome my bias against players that like playing Gishes." [/QUOTE]

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