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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dustin Cooper" data-source="post: 9371213" data-attributes="member: 6922447">The appeal of gishes to me isn't "I want all the wizard stuff and all the fighter stuff," it's "I want to do over the top, unrealistic nonsense with weapon combat."  Like my favorite gish class is the 4e Swordmage, where I can do things like teleport an enemy next to me so I can immediately hit them, simultaneously stab everyone adjacent to me in a logically impossible way, and do an attack that magically prevents an enemy from approaching my allies.  Like it's a separate fantasy than being a big strong guy with a greatsword or a scholar with a long beard throwing fireball.I actually don't like either Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger in 5e that much.  5e eventually added a few spells that feel like they're integrated into melee combat, but it's not all that many, so it feels like a lot of the time, you're either going to be doing a standard fighter thing or a standard wizard thing, not really integrating the magic with your melee combat.  The fact that I could be a bladesinger and still just hide in the back line and toss fireballs and if anything be more effective than actually making use of the melee stuff is a huge negative to me.  I'd actually prefer if there was a real cost to doing standard wizard stuff in exchange for the melee power.The 5e fighter subclasses Rune Knight, Echo Knight, and Psi Warrior are actually much closer to what I think of as a good gish than anything that actually tries mixing 5e's spell system with melee combat.  I just wish they could all use the over the top nonsense more continuously, and I'd happily give up some bonuses fighters get for the priveledge.</blockquote>

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