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Why is the spiked chain so good?
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<blockquote data-quote="phindar" data-source="post: 4283230" data-attributes="member: 37198"><p>I wouldn't change anything about it other than to consider it a Light Weapon (it'll still be two-handed), although now that you mention it, I think a Dex-based TWF who wielded two chains would be less annoying than one who wielded one two handed and got the 2-hand Power Attack damage.</p><p></p><p>"The best weapon across the board" was in reference to it's use in maneuvers, and granted, I could have made that more clear. Being a 2-handed weapon gives it a +4 on Disarm and Sunder attempts, making it a light weapon would basically negate this. The weapon would retain it's +2 on rolls to Disarm, making it an okay weapon for someone who was going that route, but not game-breaking. (I mean, anytime a particular weapon/feat combo makes the GM think <em>I can't use any monsters that have weapons or stand up</em>, then it might be over the top.) </p><p></p><p>For my money, I think the Trip build is more annoying than the Disarm build (not that most spiked chain fighters don't do both), if for no other reason than more monsters stand than use weapons. Even if you can't use Power Attack with the chain, there's still plenty of incentive to make a STR based character who uses one. </p><p></p><p>As it is, Power Attack and Imp Trip is essentially 8 free points of damage, since the Trip is a touch attack to begin (probably doesn't hurt to give up Attack Bonus on that), an opposed STR check to trip the opponent (PA doesn't penalize), and then a free attack at +4 for striking a prone target, basically what you would have to roll to hit the standing monster if you didn't use Power Attack. Plus the monster will either have to provoke when it stands or crawls away, or will attack from prone at -4. (I think this is also level dependent, and at the higher levels the PC's routinely face much larger, much higher strength opponents that are much harder to trip. Trip really stands out below 10th level, and will seem like a bigger deal if that's where most of your games take place.) </p><p></p><p>If you think the Spiked Chain is fine the way it is, then I wouldn't expect any change to how it works to seem necessary. But, if you think the Spiked Chain is unbalancing (either in the "game-destroying" or simply "too good for the cost" sense), then I think considering it a Light weapon you wield 2-handed would be a fairly simple limitation to impose.</p><p></p><p>Although, I do stand by my original comment that the problem isn't so much with the Spiked Chain as it is with the way the Combat Maneuvers are written. I houseruled those in my game and having done that, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with any character wielding a Spiked Chain as written.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="phindar, post: 4283230, member: 37198"] I wouldn't change anything about it other than to consider it a Light Weapon (it'll still be two-handed), although now that you mention it, I think a Dex-based TWF who wielded two chains would be less annoying than one who wielded one two handed and got the 2-hand Power Attack damage. "The best weapon across the board" was in reference to it's use in maneuvers, and granted, I could have made that more clear. Being a 2-handed weapon gives it a +4 on Disarm and Sunder attempts, making it a light weapon would basically negate this. The weapon would retain it's +2 on rolls to Disarm, making it an okay weapon for someone who was going that route, but not game-breaking. (I mean, anytime a particular weapon/feat combo makes the GM think [i]I can't use any monsters that have weapons or stand up[/i], then it might be over the top.) For my money, I think the Trip build is more annoying than the Disarm build (not that most spiked chain fighters don't do both), if for no other reason than more monsters stand than use weapons. Even if you can't use Power Attack with the chain, there's still plenty of incentive to make a STR based character who uses one. As it is, Power Attack and Imp Trip is essentially 8 free points of damage, since the Trip is a touch attack to begin (probably doesn't hurt to give up Attack Bonus on that), an opposed STR check to trip the opponent (PA doesn't penalize), and then a free attack at +4 for striking a prone target, basically what you would have to roll to hit the standing monster if you didn't use Power Attack. Plus the monster will either have to provoke when it stands or crawls away, or will attack from prone at -4. (I think this is also level dependent, and at the higher levels the PC's routinely face much larger, much higher strength opponents that are much harder to trip. Trip really stands out below 10th level, and will seem like a bigger deal if that's where most of your games take place.) If you think the Spiked Chain is fine the way it is, then I wouldn't expect any change to how it works to seem necessary. But, if you think the Spiked Chain is unbalancing (either in the "game-destroying" or simply "too good for the cost" sense), then I think considering it a Light weapon you wield 2-handed would be a fairly simple limitation to impose. Although, I do stand by my original comment that the problem isn't so much with the Spiked Chain as it is with the way the Combat Maneuvers are written. I houseruled those in my game and having done that, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with any character wielding a Spiked Chain as written. [/QUOTE]
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