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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aenghus" data-source="post: 5882451" data-attributes="member: 2656">Vancian spellcasting doesn't per se specify the absolute power level of the spells being learned.My  fear is that "Vancian Spellcasting" is being used as a label to appeal for getting back pre-4e spellcasters in all their broken glory, without actually saying so. The furore over Quadratic Wizard, Linear Fighter is a reaction to this fear.The bad old days (IMO) of Casters & Caddies(TM) will return if the new mechanics have the combination of lots of spell choice for spellcasters and individual spells being brokenly powerful. It's natural for players to gravitate to the most broken spells, whatever they turn out to be, if they are able to.There is a significant section of the fanbase who won't accept spellcasters who are just plain better than everyone else in the average game. This includes spellcasters with theoretical drawbacks that can be mitigated or overcome by system mastery.IMO the way to keep the caster curve down is to restrict their choices somewhat, and restrict the power of individual spells. Re spell choice, I like the idea of specialists with good access to a small area of magic, and more limited access magic in general, so casters have strengths and weaknesses, and can't just do anything given time to prepare.I think generalists should take a power hit in return for a wider choice of powers.Re spell power, I don't think spells should automatically be more powerful than non-spell abilities just because they are magic. It's possible to have useful and flavourful magic that isn't also the best ability in the setting.An isssue I see is that the most complex classes with the most optional content tend to be the spellcasters, and this appeals to a disparate group of people with differing goals e.g. powergamers seeking raw power, roleplayers seeking a particular concept, strategists expoiting the long term consequences of spells etc etc.The spellcasting rules will be stress tested by players and shouldn't break under predictable game conditions, lke players working hard to mitigate every limitation placed on them by the system, and using the most effective abilities available, regardless of how the designers envisaged the system being used.</blockquote>

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