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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why is the Vancian system still so popular?
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<blockquote data-quote="dkyle" data-source="post: 5882503" data-attributes="member: 70707"><p>Interesting on the Cleric; my group must have ignored that part.</p><p></p><p>Looking at the SRD, I'm having trouble finding the actual rules for other per Day abilities, though, even Turn Undead. We always played them as being Rest based.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not meta-game. That's just how the world works, entirely in-game. It's not "meta-game" for every possible combination of effects to not be available.</p><p></p><p>Is it "meta-game" to not be able to Raise Dead as a Standard Action in 3.5 (at least in the core rules; don't know about splatbooks)?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's an in-character decision, is what I mean. I'm not sure why characters being "stuck" with the decisions they make is a bad thing. Shouldn't decisions have consequences?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But what about the Fighter. Is he "preparing" only two of his ten at-wills?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That sounds rather bizarre, and not at all similar to my experiences with 4E. It's rare that a Wizard would run into a situation where all his choices are equally bad, simply because spell choices are rarely <em>bad</em>.</p><p></p><p>And I'm not sure why decision paralysis only occurs with equally bad choices, and not equally good choices.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Huh... and that's a <em>good</em> thing? That choice of spell to use was always obvious?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I'd have banned Wizards from my campaign, so... I'd say "no". And signs point to me doing exactly that with DnD:Next, if I end up running it.</p><p></p><p>But it's interesting to think about, because I doubt it would've changed the complaints much. Because the bulk of complaints don't really seem to be about Vancian vs AEDU, but rather Wizard spells not being "I win" buttons any more, which would not be changed with an all-Daily 4E Wizard.</p><p></p><p>Just like how most complaints about Healing Surges really seem to be more about Second Wind, and Warlords, and not really about what the Surges themselves are: simply a limit on how much healing a character can get each day (although I know that some <em>do</em> take issue with that).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dkyle, post: 5882503, member: 70707"] Interesting on the Cleric; my group must have ignored that part. Looking at the SRD, I'm having trouble finding the actual rules for other per Day abilities, though, even Turn Undead. We always played them as being Rest based. That's not meta-game. That's just how the world works, entirely in-game. It's not "meta-game" for every possible combination of effects to not be available. Is it "meta-game" to not be able to Raise Dead as a Standard Action in 3.5 (at least in the core rules; don't know about splatbooks)? It's an in-character decision, is what I mean. I'm not sure why characters being "stuck" with the decisions they make is a bad thing. Shouldn't decisions have consequences? But what about the Fighter. Is he "preparing" only two of his ten at-wills? That sounds rather bizarre, and not at all similar to my experiences with 4E. It's rare that a Wizard would run into a situation where all his choices are equally bad, simply because spell choices are rarely [i]bad[/i]. And I'm not sure why decision paralysis only occurs with equally bad choices, and not equally good choices. Huh... and that's a [i]good[/i] thing? That choice of spell to use was always obvious? Well, I'd have banned Wizards from my campaign, so... I'd say "no". And signs point to me doing exactly that with DnD:Next, if I end up running it. But it's interesting to think about, because I doubt it would've changed the complaints much. Because the bulk of complaints don't really seem to be about Vancian vs AEDU, but rather Wizard spells not being "I win" buttons any more, which would not be changed with an all-Daily 4E Wizard. Just like how most complaints about Healing Surges really seem to be more about Second Wind, and Warlords, and not really about what the Surges themselves are: simply a limit on how much healing a character can get each day (although I know that some [i]do[/i] take issue with that). [/QUOTE]
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Why is the Vancian system still so popular?
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