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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RHGreen" data-source="post: 5882537">I don't like vancian, but I could live with it if they do something like the following:1. Have at least 2 or 3 low powered at-wills so I never have to use a pointless crossbow that I can never hit with.2. Have separate silos (in a similar philosophy to 4E) where I have to choose some utility type spells as part of the system. It is always too tempting and possibly too 'right choice' to choose damage spells or save or dies and leave some of the other spells sitting around unused.For example, if you had separate spell slots for combat spells and utility spells like Level 1: 1 (1) where #(#) is combat spells (utility spells).3. The ability to ad hoc casting a spell at a disadvantage.4. Ritual casting, perhaps with the ability to cast utility spells in a ritual fashion.Something along those lines.Oh, and on a couple of spell side notes.a) Ditch meta-magic. Didn't like it, not in the 3E presentation. Not sure exactly why. Just didn't.b) Save-Or-Die. How about if we spells that have a low chance of success per round, but you can keep casting it until i) you give up, ii) you are interrupted, iii) you succeed.For example: Charm Person. You really really want to charm the target rather than just kill it. The target can help you in the adventure. It can give information, help you through a door (either pass guards, knowing the magic word, or perhaps disarm the trap etc) and maybe even fight along side you.Charm Person has only about a 1 in 3 (or perhaps 4 - I don't know - it would need play-testing to figure out) chance of succeeding.Possible Outcomes: 1) You cast it on the 1st round, it fails, you keep casting on the 2nd round, you fail again, you continue casting it yet another round and bang it succeeds. You defeat the target. It took 3 rounds of attacking to take it out in much the same way attacking with damage spells would have done. The difference is you now have a "friend".2) You cast Charm Person on the 1st round and fail. You try to keep casting on the second round, but take an arrow to the leg disrupting the spell. You lose the spell and now have to try something else.3) You cast Charm Person on the 1st round. You succeed. You have excelled yourself this time. Cheers and celebrations all round. Like the old days of Save-Or-Die, but it doesn't happen very often so it isn't a constant encounter fun destroyer.Hopefully this would get rid of the 2 normal outcomes of Save-Or-Dies. "Well that encounter was over quick, magic-users are too powerful, my fighter didn't get to do anything" or "That was my only spell and it didn't work. Now all I can do is watch you lot play. Magic-users are rubbish."</blockquote>

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