Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why is the Vancian system still so popular?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5884855" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>Part presentation, part target audience--which are both highly related, of course. This also explains a peculiar facet of 4E: Arguably, since the release of the BECMI Rule Compendium, it is the single easiest version to buy and start having success with rapidly, assuming a bunch of beginners, with no outside help whatsoever. Some teenagers get the rules, one of them decides to DM, and off they go. Had the Essentials Red Box not been such a, err, misguided effort, and the first part of Essentials might have even beaten the RC on this front. There are just so many things that you can do with 4E that will more or less work, right out of the box.</p><p> </p><p>On the other hand, that presentation is so targeted at beginners that it does very little to help you once you get past that beginning bloom. If you already know this stuff, 4E can really sing. But it doesn't tell you <strong>how</strong> to make it sing, nor does it much show you. This is especially bad since some of the techniques to make it sing are not traditional in D&D. Sometimes, it actively harms your development here, telling you things that were ok for a beginner, but not qualifying them as such--as if your English teacher had you write at 4th grade level all the way through high school to keep your modest success unthreatened. </p><p> </p><p>Heck, as pemerton has said, they could have done worse than to include a few links to other games, and suggested people go read them for advice on how to play. The Burning Wheel Adventure Burner is even cheap!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5884855, member: 54877"] Part presentation, part target audience--which are both highly related, of course. This also explains a peculiar facet of 4E: Arguably, since the release of the BECMI Rule Compendium, it is the single easiest version to buy and start having success with rapidly, assuming a bunch of beginners, with no outside help whatsoever. Some teenagers get the rules, one of them decides to DM, and off they go. Had the Essentials Red Box not been such a, err, misguided effort, and the first part of Essentials might have even beaten the RC on this front. There are just so many things that you can do with 4E that will more or less work, right out of the box. On the other hand, that presentation is so targeted at beginners that it does very little to help you once you get past that beginning bloom. If you already know this stuff, 4E can really sing. But it doesn't tell you [B]how[/B] to make it sing, nor does it much show you. This is especially bad since some of the techniques to make it sing are not traditional in D&D. Sometimes, it actively harms your development here, telling you things that were ok for a beginner, but not qualifying them as such--as if your English teacher had you write at 4th grade level all the way through high school to keep your modest success unthreatened. Heck, as pemerton has said, they could have done worse than to include a few links to other games, and suggested people go read them for advice on how to play. The Burning Wheel Adventure Burner is even cheap! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why is the Vancian system still so popular?
Top