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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 5886701" data-attributes="member: 85870">Ranes: by &quot;it,&quot; I mean the need for a social contract so&nbsp; that players of&nbsp; certain classes were not automatically going to&nbsp; overshadow other&nbsp; players / classes. As billd91 states, you really have to have one or the other--players who agree not to stretch the limits of the rule system, or a rules system that keeps the players within highly codified limits of &quot;stretching.&quot;When it comes down to it, there's really two specific arguments generally levied against &quot;Vancian&quot; casting: 1. It assumes a very specific &quot;flavor&quot; or &quot;fluff&quot; surrounding the workings of magic that does not appeal to everyone.2. It creates more leeway than many people / groups like in having to adjudicate the &quot;stretchable&quot; limits of magic. It has to be tightly regulated to not overshadow non-caster classes, and as some have pointed out in this thread, it's been that way since 1e. Vancian magic is just hard to balance so that it's fun for the players of casters, AND the players of non-casters, because it inherently creates high rules &quot;stretchiness.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 5886701, member: 85870"] Ranes: by "it," I mean the need for a social contract so that players of certain classes were not automatically going to overshadow other players / classes. As billd91 states, you really have to have one or the other--players who agree not to stretch the limits of the rule system, or a rules system that keeps the players within highly codified limits of "stretching." When it comes down to it, there's really two specific arguments generally levied against "Vancian" casting: 1. It assumes a very specific "flavor" or "fluff" surrounding the workings of magic that does not appeal to everyone. 2. It creates more leeway than many people / groups like in having to adjudicate the "stretchable" limits of magic. It has to be tightly regulated to not overshadow non-caster classes, and as some have pointed out in this thread, it's been that way since 1e. Vancian magic is just hard to balance so that it's fun for the players of casters, AND the players of non-casters, because it inherently creates high rules "stretchiness." [/QUOTE]

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