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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5887217" data-attributes="member: 87792">No problem and hope you enjoy.This.  I started out on GURPS using low magic worlds not D&D.   My reaction to D&D spells is therefore that of a kid in a candy  store.The Vancian System is seen as equivalent to classic D&D magic.  It certainly isn't the magic presented by Jack Vance.That may have been the intent.   But that didn't mean it worked.  There's too much defensive magic even  in the earlier editions of AD&D.I consider the D&D classes to be  "adventurer classes".  And this is one reason I like the 4e ritual  rules - wizards of legend were much more into dribbly candlewax than  fireballs.Both.  About a third of both 2e and 3e PHBs were devoted to spellcasting and it shows.Could you expand that claim please?This isn't actually the case except by grace of  the Cleric.  The fighter's hit points are strictly limited and that's as  much a cap on what the fighter can do as spells are on what the wizard  can.  And the  <a href="http://www.umberhulk.com/umberhulk-third-edition.html" target="_blank">Umber  Hulk</a> is CR7 with a reflex of +3 and a Will of +6 - let's assume a  7th level wizard facing it, specialist, Int 18.   A decent wizard can  turn it into something to be butchered with  <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideousLaughter.htm" target="_blank">Hideous  Laughter</a> one time in two.  That's a 50% chance of effectively a  one round kill using one of his five second level spell slots.  (Sure  the fighter needs to finish it off.  But that's just mopping up - a job  fit for the druid's animal companion).  Alternatively if the Umber Hulk  is anywhere near a corner a simple Grease spell can cripple it.And the only reason the Umber Hulk was a problem on the way out anyway was that it could bypass the Invisibility Sphere.And what prevented the fighter's hit points dwindling?  The cleric again?  Or the Wand of CLW?The  sorceror also happened to be cripplingly weak compared to the wizard -  being left in the dust at spamming top level spells one level in two (an  entire spell level behind) and only being about a match for the wizard  the other level in two.  It's only once you drop down to two spell  levels below the wizard's highest the sorceror has any advantage at all.If as a designer you view the rules of an RPG as a vehicle for conflict resolution I see nothing wrong with that. I  disagree.  To me at heart 4e's undertones are "We've actually done our  job properly this time.  Few people are going to be mechanically  disappointed by what they play, either by being outclassed or having to  cripple themselves.  And you, as DM, can put the time you would be  putting into faffing around with crunch to work out how to keep the game  on the rails into plotting, into NPCs, or simply into putting your feet  up."  To me 4e is actually far more able to accomodate the whims and fancies of DMs and players than a less balanced system.Inded.What sort of elements of robustness have been sacrificed?  Because the 3.X magic system isn't robust.  Neither is the crafting or the ability to mechanically be a professional basketweaver.It's just a lot harder work.  I'd be much  happier to play 3e with all T3 classes than I would 3e under most  conditions.  Hell, I like all the T3 classes I know - and that isn't true for any other tier.It's as much a narrative mechanic as anyting.Ummm...   Nothing is things magic does in 3e generally.  But all have something  approaching equivalents.  But I do like the Bo9S - I'm just disappointed  how long it took 3.X to get there and how many people dislike the Book  of "Weaboo Fitan Magic".On the other hand they got there more by luck than judgement given quite how any classes don't  balance with the tier 3 classes.  And this is the significant problem  for a game designer.  You should be able to cram most classes at least  into the same tier and that takes some pretty serious skill.  Skill that  the designers of 3.X didn't even come close to having (neither do the  designers of PF).  And even the 4e designers with Essentials didn't vary  the pattern too much, and it took them a couple of years and a much  more transparent system.</blockquote>

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